,SYRIA1 ,AN>*ISM @& ,VISIT+ ,ROJAVA 

,PEOPLE 3 

,AU?OR 3 ,DAVID ,GRAEB] 

,TEXT 3 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,I WAS 9 ,SYRIA ONCE4 ,I WAS 9 S\!RN ,TURKEY4 ,I WAS 9 ,IRAQ4 ,I WAS 9 A V>IETY ( DIFF]5T >EAS )9 ! ,KURDI% T]RITORIES ?AT >E EXP]IM5T+ ) DIRECT DEMOCRACY4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,CAN Y\ TELL ME AB\T :AT BR\<T Y\ !RE1 & C]TA9LY FROM ! V]Y BEG9N+8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,IT WAS LESS ?AT ,I F\ND !M ?AN !Y F\ND ME4 ,!RE'S PEOPLE 9VOLV$ 9 ! ,KURDI% ,FRE$OM ,MOVEM5T ?AT 444 IT />T$ 444 IT EM]G$ FROM ! ,P,K,K1 :I* IS A RA!R CONV5TIONAL1 ,M>XI/-,L59I/ GU]RILLA GR\P 9 ITS ORIG9S4 ,BUT SOME?+ AB\T ITS HI/ORY TOOK IT 9 ?IS RADICALLY NEW DIRECTION1 & A LOT ( IT WAS 9T]NAL PROCESSES ( WOM5 GU]RILLAS SORT ( ASS]T+ !MSELVES1 & 9TRODUC+ FEM9ISM AS A BIG !ME4 ,P>T ( IT HAD TO DO ) ! P>TICUL> 9TELLECTUAL EVOLUTION ( !IR LEAD]1 ,OCALAN1 :O'S BECOME ?IS 444 S9CE HIS >RE/ & IMPRISONM5T 9 ?IS ISL& PRISON 9 ,TURKEY1 HAS BE5 READ+ A LOT ( ,MURRAY ,BOOK*9 & A LOT ( FEM9I/ !ORY1 & K9D ( CAME >\ND TO A MU* MORE AN>*I/ POSITION1 BASICALLY4 

,!Y DECID$ ?AT RA!R ?AN DEM&+ A /ATE ( !IR [N1 !Y WI%$ TO SIMPLY MAKE BORD]S IRRELEVANT & DISSOLVE AWAY /ATES 5TIRELY4 ,& IT'S K9D ( MADE S5SE TO PEOPLE 9 ?AT P>T ( ! WORLD4 ,REMEMB] ! ,KURDS >E A POPULATION :O >E DIVID$ BETWE5 ,IRAN1 ,IRAQ1 ,SYRIA1 & ,TURKEY4 

,! IDEA !Y >E SOMEH[ C>V+ A GOV]NM5T \T ( ?AT SEEMS UNLIKELY4 ,& !Y ALSO MAKE ! RA!R 444 A PO9T Y\ HE> A LOT (1 ACTUALLY1 PEOPLE WILL SAY1 0,WELL1 Y\ KN[1 WE'VE COME TO REALIZE 9 ?IS P>T ( ! WORLD1 DEM&+ Y\R [N C\NTRY IS BASICALLY ! SAME AS ',I DEM& ! RI<T TO BE TORTUR$ BY SECRET POLICEM5 SPEAK+ MY [N LANGUAGE'40 ,IT'S NOT MU* ( A DEM&4 ,SO !Y'VE COME >\ND TO ?IS IDEA ( BOTTOM-UP DIRECT DEMOCRACY & SORT ( ELIM9AT+ BORD]S AS ! BE/ WAY ?AT !Y CAN COME UP ) SOME?+ LIKE A ,KURDI/AN ?AT W\LD MAKE S5SE4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,SO ! PLACE IS !RE8 ,CAN ,I EV5 SAY ! PLACE IS !RE8 ,!RE IS A PHYSICAL PLACE ?AT Y\ H9T$4 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,KURDI/AN4 ,I W5T TO ,ROJAVA4 ,ROJAVA - OR WE/ ,KURDI/AN - IS ! ,SYRIAN P>T ( ,KURDI/AN4 ,IT'S A L>GE SECTION ( NOR!RN ,SYRIA ALONG ! ,TURKI% BORD]1 & AB\T TWO MILLION PEOPLE !RE 5GAG$ 9 :AT ,I ?9K CONSID]$ TO BE ONE ( ! GREAT HI/ORICAL EXP]IM5TS4 ,MY FA!R F\<T 9 ! ,SPANI% CIVIL W>S1 SO ,I K9D ( GREW UP 9 A PLACE :]E ! MEMORIES ( :AT HAPP5$ 9 ,SPA9 9 '#c#f1 '#c#g1 '#c#h W]E V]Y VIVID4 ,SO ONE REASON ,I CAME TO BE AN AN>*I/ IS BECAUSE1 ,I ALWAYS SAY1 MO/ PEOPLE DON'T ?9K AN>*ISM IS A BAD IDEA4 ,!Y ?9K IT'S 9SANE4 ,NO POLICE1 PEOPLE JU/ />T KILL+ EA* O!R4 ,NOBODY ACTUALLY ORGANIZ$ ?+S )\T LEAD]S4 

,& 9 FACT1 MY FA!R WAS 9 ,B>CELONA :5 IT WAS RUN BY AN AN>*I/ PR9CIPLE4 ,!Y JU/ GOT RID ( :ITE COLL> WORK]S1 & SURE 5\< !Y DISCOV]$ !SE W]E BASICALLY BULL%IT JOBS1 ?AT !Y DIDN'T MAKE ANY DIFF]5CE IF !Y W]5'T !RE4 

,SO HAV+ GR[N UP LIKE ?AT1 ,I UND]/& ?AT IT'S POSSIBLE1 BUT !RE HASN'T BE5 AN EXP]IM5T ON ?AT SCALE LIKE :AT HAPP5$ 9 ,SPA9 & ! ,REPUBLICAN-CONTROLL$ >EA1 ESPECIALLY AN>*I/ ,KURD-HELD >EAS1 S9CE BECAUSE EV]YBODY'S SO T]RIFI$ ( ! PEOPLE RUNN+ ?+S4 

,!Y DON'T M9D IF PEOPLE SAY1 0,I HATE Y\1 ,I WANT TO OV]?R[ Y\0 NE>LY SO MU* AS !Y SAY 0,Y\ GUYS >E RIDICUL\S & UNNECESS>Y40 ,?AT'S :AT !Y REALLY FE>4 ,SO ! 5EMIES !Y LIKE >E ! ONES :O TRY TO REPLACE ! ,M>XI/S1 BASICALLY4 ,:5 ?OSE ,M>XI/S COME1 ! POLICE WILL /ILL BE !RE4 ,!RE >E PROBABLY GO+ TO BE MORE ( !M1 RI<T8 ,AN>*I/S COME1 ! :OLE /RUCTURE WILL BE *ANG$4 ,PEOPLE WILL BE TOLD ?AT IT'S COMPLETELY UNNECESS>Y4 

,SO ?AT K9D ( EXP]IM5T !Y'RE REALLY AFRAID (4 ,!Y T5D TO /AMP IT \T AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE4 ,SO ?IS IS ! FIR/ TIME1 ,I ?9K1 S9CE ,SPA9 ?AT Y\'VE HAD L>GE >EA ( T]RITORY UND] ! CONTROL ( PEOPLE :O >E TRY+ TO DO ?AT2 TRY+ TO CREATE BOTTOM-UP DIRECT DEMOCRACY )\T A /ATE4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,:]E ELSE HAS ?AT BE5 TRI$8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,I MEAN1 IT'S TRI$ EV]Y:]E 9 ! WORLD = MU* ( HUMAN HI/ORY & WORK$ F9E4 ,BUT UND] ! MOD]N 9DU/RIAL CONDITIONS1 !RE HAVE BE5 V>I\S ATTEMPTS4 ,) MO/ REVOLUTION>Y HI/ORY1 Y\ TALK AB\T ! ,P>IS COMMUNE1 Y\ TALK AB\T ,KRON/ADT2 Y\ TALK AB\T ,MAKHNO 9 ,UKRA9E4 ,!RE HAVE BE5 ATTEMPTS TO DO SO4 ,BUT USUALLY EV]YBODY1 ON ALL SIDES 9CLUD+ ! LEFT-W+]S1 TURN ON !M & TRY TO SUPPRESS IT4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,SO :AT >E ! BASIC M9IMUM ?+S ?AT HAVE TO ORGANIZE OR ?AT .<CROS/ALK 3#d3#c#c.>8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,!Y RUN ! CITIES4 ,IT'S A C\NTRY ( A REAL ECONOMY2 IT'S A POOR ONE & !Y'RE UND] EMB>GO4 ,BUT !RE >E PEOPLE DRIV+ C>S1 !RE IS TRAFFIC RULES1 !RE'S WORK%OPS & FACTORIES PRODUC+ ?+S1 !RE'S F>MS4 ,IT DOES ALL ! ?+S Y\ HAVE 9 A NORMAL SOCIETY4 ,ROADS HAVE TO BE MA9TA9$4 

,BUT ESS5TIALLY1 :AT !Y HAVE DONE IS CREAT$ 444 IT'S V]Y 9T]E/+4 ,I'VE SAID1 ,I'VE DESCRIB$ IT AS A DUAL P[] SITUATION1 BUT ?IS IS ! FIR/ TIME 9 HUMAN HI/ORY1 ,I ?9K1 :]E Y\ HAVE A DUAL P[] SITUATION :]E ! SAME GUY SET UP BO? SIDES4 ,SO !Y HAVE A ?+ ?AT LOOKS LIKE A GOV]NM5T2 IT'S GOT A P>LIAM5T1 IT'S GOT M9I/]S4 ,!Y PASS LEGISLATION4 

,BUT !Y ALSO HAVE ! BOTTOM-UP /RUCTURE4 ,! BOTTOM-UP /RUCTURE IS :AT !Y 0DEMOCRATIC CONF$]ALISM40 ,EV]Y NEI<BORHOOD HAS AN ASSEMBLY1 & EV]Y ASSEMBLY HAS WORK+ GR\PS4 ,!Y'RE PEOPLE ?AT H&LE ISSUES & M$ICAL ISSUES & SECURITY ISSUES4 ,& EA* ONE ( ?OSE GR\PS1 EA* ASSEMBLY & EA* WORK+ GR\P1 ALSO HAS A WOM5'S GR\P4 ,!Y HAVE TO HAVE #d P]C5T WOM5 OR !Y DON'T HAVE A QUORUM1 BUT !Y ALSO HAVE AN ALL-WOM5'S GR\P ?AT CAN VETO ANY?+ !Y SAY4 ,SO IT HAS TO BE 444 EV]Y?+ IS G5D] BALANC$4 ,ALL (FICIALS1 !RE'S TWO3 ONE MALE1 ONE FEMALE ( EV]Y?+4 ,ALSO1 ! >MY IS LIKE ?AT4 ,?AT'S :Y !Y HAVE ALL ?OSE FAM\S IMAGES ( WOM5 ) WEAPONS1 BUT ?AT'S POLITICAL1 TOO4 

,PEOPLE SAID V]Y EXPLICITLY1 !Y SAID1 0,WELL LOOK1 WE'RE ANTI-CAPITALI/4 ,WE'VE ALWAYS BE5 ANTI-CAPITALI/4 ,BUT 4440 ,I ?9K !Y SAID1 0BUT LESSON ( HI/ORY WE FEEL IS ?AT Y\ CAN'T GET RID ( CAPITALISM )\T GETT+ RID ( ! /ATE4 ,& Y\ CAN'T GET RID ( ! /ATE )\T GETT+ RID ( PATRI>*Y40 

,WELL1 H[ DO Y\ GET RID ( PATRI>*Y8 ,WELL1 MAK+ SURE ALL WOM5 HAVE ACCESS TO AUTOMATIC WEAPONS IS ONE PLACE TO />T4 ,Y\ REALLY CAN'T PU% PEOPLE >\ND IF !Y'RE >M$4 ,& !Y HAVE !IR WOM5'S POLICE =CES1 TOO1 ?AT LIKE 444 ,SO !Y HAVE DIRECT DEMOCRACY & ?AT GOES FROM !SE NEI<BORHOOD C\NCILS1 & ?OSE C\NCILS CONF$]ATE 9TO REGIONAL ONES & !N MUNICIPAL ONES1 & !Y ALL S5D DELEGATES1 NOT REPRES5TATIVES1 TO MAKE DECISIONS TOGE!R 9 A BIG1 ELABORATE SY/EM4 

,BUT ! KEY IS Y\ HAVE ?IS TOP-D[N SY/EM1 Y\ HAVE A BOTTOM-UP /RUCTURE4 ,WELL1 :AT !Y SAY IS ?IS ISN'T A /ATE BECAUSE ANYBODY ) A GUN IS ANSW]ABLE TO ! BOTTOM-UP /RUCTURES & NOT ! TOP-D[N4 ,SO ! PEOPLE ON ! TOP CAN'T ACTUALLY =CE ANYBODY TO DO SOME?+ !Y DON'T WANT TO DO4 ,!RE'S ONE EXCEPTION1 & ?AT'S WOM5'S RI<TS4 

,SO !Y'LL HAVE LAWS LIKE ABOLI%+ *ILD M>RIAGE OR SOME?+ LIKE ?AT1 & !Y SAY SOME ( !SE VILLAGES W\LD PROBABLY RE9/ATE IT IF WE LET !M4 ,BUT ?AT'S (F LIMITS4 ,& !Y DO HAVE AN 5=CEM5T ME*ANISM1 BUT ?AT'S AN ALL-WOM5 POLICE =CE ?AT 5=CES ?IS RULE SPECIFICALLY RELEVANT TO WOM54 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,H[ LONG HAVE !Y BE5 GO+ ) !SE8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,?REE OR F\R YE>S N[4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,& :AT WAS ! 9SPIRATION8 ,WAS ?IS ! G5TLEMAN ?AT Y\ SAID 9 ! PRISON NAM$- 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,OCALAN4 ,ABDULLAH ,OCALAN4 ,HIS PICTURE IS EV]Y:]E4 ,IT'S 9T]E/+ BECAUSE G5]ALLY SPEAK+1 !Y V]Y MU* %UN ! CULT ( P]SONALITY4 ,9 FACT1 !Y NEV] HAVE IMAGES ( ANYBODY :O'S ALIVE EXCEPT = HIM4 ,!Y HAVE PICTURES ( PEOPLE :O >E DEAD1 SO !RE'S PICTURES ( M>TYRS EV]Y:]E FROM ! W>S4 ,BUT !Y'LL NEV] %[ AN IMAGE ( SOMEONE :O'S /ILL >\ND BECAUSE ?AT W\LD BE ANTI-DEMOCRATIC MAK+ SOMEONE \T TO BE A *>ISMATIC LEAD]4 ,HE IS ! EXCEPTION1 BUT ?AT'S BECAUSE HE'S 9 PRISON = ! RE/ ( HIS LIFE1 SO HE'S ! LEAD] & EV]YBODY ACCEPTS HIM AS SU*4 ,BUT ! ?+ IS1 ,TURKEY WAS GO+ TO EXECUTE HIM BUT !Y HAD /ILL WANT$ TO GET 9TO ! ,E,U AT ?AT PO9T SO !Y KNEW !Y C\LDN'T DO IT4 

,& ACCORD+ TO LAW1 HE C\LD PUT ANY TE/IMONY RELEVANT TO HIS CRIME1 HE HAD ! RI<T TO WRITE IT ALL D[N4 ,SO HE DECID$ ?AT 9 ORD] TO EXPLA9 & CONTEXTUALIZE ! CRIMES HE'S ACCUS$ (1 HE W\LD HAVE TO WRITE #ab DIFF]5T BOOKS1 9CLUD+ A ?REE VOLUME HI/ORY ( ! ,MIDDLE ,EA/4 

,& SO ?IS WORK HAS BE5 COM+ \T CONT9UALLY & IS US$ AS A SORT ( GR\ND+ = DEBATE )9 ! ,KURDI% MOVEM5T4 ,& HE MADE ALL !SE DECL>ATIONS1 0,WE NE$ TO GET AWAY FROM PURELY CLASS /RUGGLE MODEL & UND]/& ?AT ! OPPRESSION ( WOM5 IS ! MO/ PRIMORDIAL & IMM$IATE ?+ WE HAVE TO DEAL )4 ,WE HAVE TO UND]/& ?AT ECOLOGY IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO EXPLOITATION40 ,SO !Y'VE BECOME ?IS SORT ( ECOLOGICAL FEM9I/ >MY BAS$ ON PR9CIPLES ( DIRECT DEMOCRACY4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,>E HIS WORKS AVAILABLE 9 ,5GLI%8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,OH YEAH4 ,NOT ALL ( !M1 OBVI\SLY1 BUT !RE'S VOLUMES COM+ \T CONT9UALLY4 ,& Y\ KN[1 FROM AN AN>*I/ PO9T ( VIEW1 TO SOME DEGREE IT IS A LITTLE CREEPY4 ,Y\ GO !RE & !RE >E ALL !SE PICTURES ( ! GREAT LEAD]2 ,I CAME TO REF] TO HIM AS ,UNCLE ,EOJ1 LIKE ,UNCLE ,JOE BACKW>DS4 ,HE'S ! OPPOSITE BECAUSE HE'S LIKE ! AU?ORIT>IAN LEAD] TELL+ EV]YBODY TO READ AN>*ISM & /OP BE+ AU?ORIT>IAN4 ,& IT PUTS ! OLD FA%ION$ AU?ORIT>IANS 9 A T]RIBLE B9D BECAUSE !Y HAVE TO DO EV]Y?+ ! LEAD] SAYS4 ,! LEAD]'S SAY+ ?9K = Y\RSELF4 

,OBVI\SLY1 ! Y\NG PEOPLE >E V]Y 5?USIA/IC4 ,!Y'RE NOT AN>*I/S1 BUT !Y EMBRACE A LOT ( AN>*I/ IDEAS2 !Y'VE BE5 READ+ AN>*ISM4 ,!Y'RE ANTI-/ATE1 SO :AT !Y CALL !MSELVES DOESN'T REALLY MATT] FROM AN AN>*I/ POSITION AS LONG AS Y\'RE ANTI-/ATE & ANTI-CAPITALISM4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,H[ DO !Y PROTECT ! T]RITORY8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,!Y BELIEVE 9 ! NOTION ( DEF5SE4 ,WELL ! ?+ IS1 !Y'RE ! BE/ FI<T]S 9 ,SYRIA4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,:AT'S ! DIFF]5CE BETWE5 /ATE & :AT !Y'RE DO+8 ,BECAUSE !Y'VE GOT !IR T]RITORY1 SO SURELY 444 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,IT'S TO PROTECT SOCIETY4 ,!Y SAY ?AT LIKE 444 ! >GUM5T !Y HAVE IS 444 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,ISN'T ?AT A SEMANTIC DIFF]5CE1 ?\<8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,WELL1 !Y ?9K NOT BECAUSE :AT !Y W\LD SAY IS ?AT AS /ATE IS A MONOPOLY ( LEGITIMATE USE ( =CE1 ( C\RSE1 9 ! T]RITORY4 ,!Y DON'T HAVE SU* A MONOPOLY4 ,IT'S A DEMOCRATIC BOTTOM-UP ORGANIZATION4 ,!RE IS NO 9/ITUTION ?AT CAN DO ?AT4 

,SO !N !Y SAY1 0,WELL1 ANY 9/ITUTION HAS TO DEF5D ITSELF1 ANY?+ 9 NATURE HAS TO DEF5D ITSELF40 ,DEF5SE IS A 444 BUT IT'S WAG+ AGGRESSIVE W>1 ATTACK+ 444 ,SO !IR >MY IS CALL$ ! ,PEOPLE'S ,DEF5SE ,UNITS4 ,& IT'S ALSO DEMOCRATIC2 !Y ELECT !IR LEAD]S4 ,EV]Y NI<T !Y DISCUSS ! DECISIONS & CRITIQUE !M & CAN REMOVE !M1 & SO IT'S ALL V]Y MU* A EXP]IM5T 9 DEMOCRACY4 

,& Y\'D ?9K ?IS WAS LIKE1 0,GREAT4 ,AS SOON AS !Y NE$ A REAL >MY1 LET'S SEE :AT HAPP5S40 ,WELL !Y ALWAYS W94 ,!Y'VE BE5 COMPLETELY DEFEAT+ ,I,S,I,S SY/EMATICALLY ON ! GR\ND1 & AT ! MOM5T1 !Y'RE M>*+ ON ! ,I,S,I,S CAPITAL4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,SO ?IS IS 0,WE'VE ALL GOT EA* O!R'S BACK80 ,?AT'S !IR VIBE1 YEAH8 ,?AT'S !IR IDEA4 ,& SO Y\ SAID !Y'RE M>*+ ON 444 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,RAQQA4 ,AM]ICA IS 9 ! IRONIC POSITION ( HAV+ TO BACK A BUN* ( AN>*I/S4 ,!SE >E ! ONLY PEOPLE :O >E GOOD MILIT>Y FI<T]S 9 ! REGION :O >E ACTUALLY TRY+ TO TAKE \T ! FASCI/S4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,I ?\<T IT WAS QUITE /RANGE1 ON MY WAY H]E ,I ?\<T ,I MI<T BE ASK+ ,DAVID AB\T PROJECT MANAGEM5T1 GIV5 Y\R WORK ON BUREAUCRACY & BULL%IT JOBS4 ,BUT 9 A WAY1 !SE PEOPLE >E K9D ( EXEMPLIFY+ GOOD PROJECT MANAGEM5T1 >E !Y NOT8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,OH1 YEAH4 ,PEOPLE MISUND]/&2 !Y ?9K ?AT PEOPLE :O >E AGA9/ 444 ?AT AN>*I/S >E AGA9/ ALL =MS ( ANY?+ ?AT EV5 LOOKS LIKE A BUREAUCRACY2 ANY =M ( ADM9I/RATION1 ANY =M ( MANAGEM5T2 ANY =M ( ORGANIZATION1 EV54 ,?IS IS 444 ,I'M SURE !RE >E SOME 9DIVIDUALS LIKE ?AT4 ,BUT AS ,MALATE/A US$ TO PO9T \T1 0,IF Y\ SAY ?AT AN>*I/S >E CRAZY PEOPLE :O >E JU/ AGA9/ EV]Y?+1 ALL PEOPLE :O >E CRAZY PEOPLE :O >E JU/ AGA9/ EV]Y?+ WILL />T TO CALL !MSELVES AN>*I/S40 ,?AT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MEAN MU* AB\T :AT ! O!R ONES :O >E ALWAYS CALL+ !MSELVES AN>*I/S WILL SAY4 

,AN>*ISM ISN'T AGA9/ ORGANIZATION2 IT MEANS PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO BE COMPELL$ TO ORGANIZE !MSELVES4 ,9 FACT1 !Y BELIEVE 9 ORGANIZATION MORE ?AN ANYBODY ELSE4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,OKAY1 BECAUSE ACTUALLY ! ?+ ?AT ,I WAS WOND]+ WAS1 :AT >E Y\R TIDBITS ( 444 Y\R TIPS ON PROJECT MANAGEM5T8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,WELL1 ,I ?9K ?AT ACC\NTABILITY IS KEY4 ,IF Y\ HAVE A SY/EM :]E ANYBODY CAN SAY :AT !Y WANT1 Y\'LL HAVE TO COME UP & NOBODY CAN BE COMPELL$ TO DO SOME?+2 ?AT'S OBVI\SLY /UPID4 ,Y\'RE GO+ TO HAVE TO MAKE IT A COMMON S5SICAL4 

,= EXAMPLE1 CONS5SUS PROCESS4 ,EV]YBODY TALKS AB\T IT AS IF IT'S A COMPLEX SET ( RULES1 LIKE ,ROB]T'S ,RULES ( ,ORD]1 & !Y'VE HAD TO PRESS IT4 ,BUT !Y'RE DO+ IT WRONG4 ,! IDEA IS ?AT NOBODY %\LD BE =C$ TO DO SOME?+ ?AT !Y VIOL5TLY OBJECT TO4 ,IF Y\ DON'T HAVE ! MEANS TO DO SO1 :ATEV] Y\ DO WILL BE A CONS5SUS BECAUSE Y\'RE GO+ TO HAVE TO LI/5 TO :AT EV]YBODY ?9KS1 & Y\'RE GO+ TO HAVE TO COME >\ND TO A POSITION ?AT NOBODY F9DS VIOL5TLY OBJECTIONABLE1 :I* IS BASICALLY ALL CONS5SUS IS4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,BUT :AT HAPP5S :5 PEOPLE SAY1 0,WE DON'T HAVE 5\< TIME TO LI/5 TO EV]YONE80 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,WELL !N1 ?AT DEP5DS ON ! SITUATION4 ,IF SOME?+ HAS TO BE DONE1 !N IT'S OKAY TO SAY ALL RI<T1 = ! NEXT ?REE H\RS %E'S 9 *>GE4 ,!RE'S NO?+ WRONG ) ?AT IF EV]YBODY AGREES TO IT4 ,OR Y\ IMPROVISE4 

,BUT CONS5SUS IS ! DEFAULT MODE1 & ALL ,I BELIEVE 9 IS TAK+ ?AT BASIC PR9CIPAL ?AT IF Y\ CAN'T =CE PEOPLE TO DO ?+S ?AT !Y DON'T WANT TO DO OR !Y ?9K IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG OR IDIOTIC1 !N Y\'RE GO+ TO HAVE TO DEVELOP A /RUCTURE ( HE>+ PEOPLE \T4 ,?AT'S ! ONLY ?+ ,I W\LDN'T COMPROMISE ON4 ,EV]Y?+ ELSE IS LIKE :AT'S ! MO/ EFFECTIVE WAY TO DO ?AT8 

,= EXAMPLE1 9 ,KURDI/AN !Y ACTUALLY CAME UP ) A V]Y 9T]E/+ & CREATIVE SOLUTION TO ?IS4 ,!Y SAY ?AT !Y MAKE A DI/9CTION BETWE5 TE*NICAL MATT]S1 & MORAL OR POLITICAL MATT]S4 ,& !Y SAY ) ! TE*NICAL ?+S Y\ CAN DO A MAJORITY VOTE4 0,>E WE GO+ TO MEET AT F\R OR >E WE GO+ TO MEET AT FIVE80 ,!N %[ ( H&S4 ,IF IT'S LIKE1 0,%\LD WE BE VIOL5T OR NONVIOL5T80 ,WELL1 !N Y\ HAVE TO HAVE CONS5SUS4 

,& !N ( C\RSE1 OBVI\SLY ! QUE/ION IS :O GETS TO DECIDE :AT'S A MORAL QUE/ION & :AT'S ! TE*NICAL ONE8 ,SO SOMEBODY MI<T SAY1 0,WELL1 ! QUE/ION ( F\R OR FIVE BE>S ON DISABL$ PEOPLE1 & ?AT'S A MORAL QUE/ION40 ,SO ?AT BECOMES A LITTLE BIT ( A POLITICAL FOOTBALL4 ,!RE'S ALWAYS ?+S TO DEBATE & PO9TS ( T5SION4 

,BUT NONE!LESS1 Y\ CAN BE EFFICI5T :5 Y\ HAVE TO1 BUT Y\'RE EFFICI5T ) ! ?+S ?AT EFFICI5CY IS MORE IMPORTANT ?AN :AT IS AT /AKE4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,I ONCE ASK$ Y\ AB\T BUREAUCRACY 9 ACTIVI/ CIRCLES1 HAD Y\ EV] SE5 IT4 ,& Y\ TOLD ME ?AT Y\ C\LD POSSIBLY TALK AB\T ?AT =EV]4 ,BUT IF Y\ C\LD JU/ TELL ME AB\T ?AT4 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,?AT'S EXACTLY :AT ,I'M TALK+ AB\T4 ,N[1 PEOPLE :O DON'T UND]/& ?AT !SE >E A SET ( PR9CIPLES >\ND :I* ONE CAN IMPROVISE & F9D ! ?+ :I* IS BE/ = A P>TICUL> GR\P ( PEOPLE & A P>TICUL> ?+ !Y'RE TRY+ TO DO1 WILL T5D TO ACT LIKE EV]Y?+ IS A SET ( RULES ?AT Y\ HAVE TO OBEY4 ,& IT'S SO FRU/RAT+ TO ME4 

,I (T5 HAD PEOPLE )9 ,OCCUPY :O W]E CONV9C$ ?AT ,I WAS ! GUY DEM&+ ?AT !RE'S A RULE BOOK ( CONS5SUS1 BECAUSE ,I ABHOR CONS5SUS4 ,I MEAN1 ,I'M NOT = ABSOLUTE CONS5SUS1 MODIFI$ CONS5SUS4 ,!RE ALWAYS HAS TO BE SOME?+ 444 !RE'S ALWAYS ONE OR TWO PEOPLE :O >E CRAZY OR UNREASONABLE OR SOME?+4 ,SO1 EV]Y?+ )9 REASON1 9CLUD+ REASONABL5ESS4 

,BUT NONE!LESS1 !RE'LL BE SOME PEOPLE ?9K+ ,I'M ! RULE BOOK GUY1 & O!R PEOPLE SAY+ ,I'M ! CRAZY AN>*I/ RIP ALL ! RULES GUY1 :I* MAYBE ?AT %[S ,I'M HITT+ ! RI<T PO9T 9 ! MIDDLE4 ,BUT YES1 !RE IS A T5D5CY = CREEP+ BUREAUCRATIZATION TO SET 9 & !RE'S V>I\S REASONS = ?AT4 ,I'VE ACTUALLY 444 ONE ( ! ?+S ,I WAS 9T]E/$ 9 LOOK+ AT 9 ! BOOK IS :Y ?AT HAPP5S4 

,LANGUAGE IS A GREAT EXAMPLE ( ?IS4 ,ON ! ONE H&1 LANGUAGES >E ALWAYS *ANG+4 ,!RE'S NO LANGUAGE ON E>? ?AT'S ! SAME AS IT WAS #a YE>S AGO4 ,:Y IS ?AT8 ,WELL1 PEOPLE LIKE TO PLAY >\ND4 ,EV]YBODY :O IS 444 DO+ IT A LITTLE DIFF]5T1 !Y'RE HAV+ FUN ) IT A LITTLE4 ,& GRADUALLY1 ?+S 444 DOESN'T MATT] IF Y\'RE 9 ,SW$5 OR ,NEW ,GU9EA OR ,ECUADOR OR ANYPLACE ELSE4 ,PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE FUN4 ,!Y'LL PLAY >\ND ) ! LANGUAGE4 

,BUT ON ! O!R H&1 IF Y\ TELL PEOPLE !Y'RE DO+ IT WRONG1 !Y'LL BELIEVE Y\4 ,SO IF Y\ TAKE A RULE BOOK = H[ LANGUAGE WAS 9 #aia & SAY1 0,LOOK1 LOOK4 ,Y\ HAVE CORRUPT$ ! LANGUAGE40 ,!Y'LL SAY1 0,OH MY ,GOD1 Y\'RE RI<T4 ,TEA* US H[ TO SPEAK RI<T40 ,!Y'LL ALL USE SLANG & SLACK (F & COME UP ) FUNNY NEW WAYS ( TALK+1 & !N !Y'LL BELIEVE Y\ IF Y\ SAY ?AT !Y %\LDN'T BE DO+ ?AT4 ,& 9 A WAY1 ?IS IS ! FUNDAM5TAL DILEMMA ?AT MAKES BUREAUCRACY POSSIBLE4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,SO Y\ MEAN1 = EXAMPLE LANGUAGE IS SOME?+ :I* HAPP5S TO HAVE RULES1 & IF SOMEBODY COMES 9 & SAYS .<9AUDIBLE 3#a#f3#e#f.>8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,BUT ! RULES >E *ANG+ ALL ! TIME4 

,9T]VIEW]3 ,RI<T4 ,DO Y\ ?9K ?AT WE JU/ LIKE BE+ DOM9AT$8 

,D,A,V,I,D ,G,R,A,E,B,]3 ,I DON'T KN[ IF ?AT'S IT4 ,I MEAN1 SOME PEOPLE OBVI\SLY DO4 ,SOMETIMES IT'S LAZ9ESS2 !Y JU/ DON'T WANT TO HAVE ! RESPONSIBILITY ( HAV+ TO DECIDE ?+S ALL ! TIME4 ,ONE ( ! REASONS WE LIKE BE+ DOM9AT$ IS BECAUSE ?AT WAY WE CAN BLAME SOMEBODY ELSE :5 SOME?+ GOES WRONG4 ,!RE'S A C]TA9 HEAVY WEI<T ( RESPONSIBILITY :5 ,I CON/ANTLY HAVE TO BE P>T ( 444 ! P]SON MAK+ ! DECISION4 

,I MEAN1 ! ASPECTS ( P[] ?AT >E PLEASURABLE >E BALANC$ BY ! ASPECTS ( P[] :I* >E SC>Y1 & TO SOME PEOPLE1 DEF9ITELY !Y ?9K IT'S WOR? ! RISK & 5JOY ! PLEASURABLE P>TS A LOT MORE ?AN !Y'RE SC>$ BY ! SC>Y P>TS1 & O!R PEOPLE >E ! O!R WAY4 ,& ?AT'S ONE ?+ ?AT ALL[S P[] TO EM]GE4 

,I MEAN1 ,I FEEL V]Y /RONGLY1 BY ! WAY1 ?AT COMPULSORY P>TICIPATION 9 DIRECT DEMOCRACY IS JU/ AS WRONG AS NOT ALL[+ PEOPLE TO P>TICIPATE4 ,9 ANY EXAMPLE ( SUCCESSFUL1 LONG-T]M DEMOCRACY ,I KN[1 SOME PEOPLE DON'T %[ UP4 ,IT'S USUALLY ACTUALLY A QUORUM ( MAYBE AB\T A ?IRD ( ! PEOPLE 9 A KIBBUTZ OR SOME?+ LIKE ?AT4 ,!Y'RE ! PROCESS JUNKIES4 ,!Y'RE ! POLITICAL GUYS4 

,BUT !Y'RE ACT+ 9 ! KN[L$GE ?AT IF ! DO SOME?+ PEOPLE DON'T LIKE1 ?OSE PEOPLE WILL %[ UP AT ! NEXT MEET+ NO MATT] H[ LAZY !Y'VE BE5 UP UNTIL N[4 ,SO 9 A WAY1 !Y HAVE TO KEEP 444 BE> EV]YBODY'S 9T]E/S 9 M9D BECAUSE !Y DON'T HAVE A RI<T TO REPRES5T !M4 

7,S\RCE3 ,RETRIEV$ ON #f? ,M>* #bba FROM ZCOMM4ORG47 

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,JANU>Y #i1 #bbb 3 ,SYRIA1 ,AN>*ISM @& ,VISIT+ ,ROJAVA -- ,ADD$4 

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