,9T]VIEW ) ,KLEE ,B5ALLY 

#bad 

,PEOPLE 3 

,AU?OR 3 ,>AGORN6 

,TEXT 3 

,KLEE ,B5ALLY IS ORIG9ALLY FROM ,BLACK ,MESA & HAS WORK$ MO/ ( HIS LIFE AT ! FRONT L9ES 9 /RUGGLES TO PROTECT ,9DIG5\S SACR$ L&S4 ,KLEE DOESN'T BELIEVE ! CURR5T DOM9ANT SOCIAL ORD] 7READ 0COLONIAL SY/EM07 CAN BE FIX$ BUT %\LD 7& WILL BE7 SMA%$ TO PIECES4 ,:5 ASK$ AB\T HIS POLITICS HE SAYS1 0,I MA9TA9 ,D9E TRADITIONALISM AS MY WAY ( BE+ 9 ?IS WORLD4 ,I HAVE AFF9ITY ) ,AN>*ISM & ID5TIFY MYSELF AS AN ,9DIG5\S ,AN>*I/40 ,KLEE P]=M$ ) ! ROCK GR\P ,BLACKFIRE = #b YE>S & P]=MS SOLO TODAY4 HTTP3_/_/KLEEB5ALLY4COM_/ 

,>AGORN6 - ,:AT W\LD IT LOOK LIKE = SOMEONE :O HAS NO SPIRITUAL PRACTICE TO DEVELOP ONE8 

,KLEE -,?AT'S A V]Y P]SONAL QUE/ION & ,I ?9K :AT 5DS UP HAPP5+ IS ?AT PEOPLE />T !SE C5T]S LIKE ! ONES 9 ,S$ONA1 OR />T !SE NEW AGE C5T]S4 ,!Y >E SEEK+ ?AT ANSW] FROM O!R PEOPLE 7AS OPPOS$ TO )9 OR FROM )9 !IR [N ROOTS OR ASK+ ! L& :AT DEVELOP+ A SPIRITUAL PRACTICE MEANS74 ,TO ME ?AT IS :AT IT LOOKS LIKE :5 PEOPLE />T APPROPRIAT+ FROM ALL !SE O!R S\RCES4 ,OR !Y GO TO ! USUAL SUSPECTS :O >E EXPLOIT+ !IR [N CULTURES OR JU/ SELL+ !M OR--EV5 IF IT'S NOT = SALE1 EV5 IF !RE IS NO MONET>Y EX*ANGE--SOMETIMES !SE PEOPLE HAVE BE5 KICK$ \T ( !IR [N COMMUNITIES & >E PIMP+ \T !IR [N CULTURE = !IR [N GRATIFICATION4 ,PEOPLE >E SEEK+ FROM O!R S\RCES1 & =GET ?AT MO!R E>? IS ,! S\RCE4 ,YA KN[ !RE IS ?IS SORT ( ?IS CLI*E ?AT MO!R E>? IS NOT A RES\RCE IT IS ,! S\RCE4 ,IT'S ACTUALLY V]Y TRUE ?\<4 ,I ?9K IT IS P>T ( LIKE1 ALMO/ ALL 9DIG5\S CULTURES ?AT ,I KN[1 !Y DON'T FUCK+ MISSIONIZE2 !Y DON'T GO \T & TRY TO CONV]T PEOPLE4 ,:5 PEOPLE />T ASK+ ?AT QUE/ION1 IT'S LIKE4444 ,IS ?AT AN ANSW] WE CAN GIVE8 ,BECAUSE !N WE ASSUME SOME K9D ( RESPONSIBILITY 9 ?AT RELATION%IP4 ,I ?9K :]E PEOPLE EXPECT IT1 Y\ KN[ JU/ DIFF]5T EXPECTATIONS AB\T ?AT4 ,I CAN MAYBE SPEAK FROM EXP]I5CE TO PEOPLE ,I HAVE KN[N :O HAVE COME TO SOME K9D ( SPIRITUAL UND]/&+ BUT AGA9 ?AT'S DEEPLY P]SONAL ON SOME LEVELS4 ,( C\RSE WE HAVE CULTURE1 IT'S A SOCIAL COHESION2 H[ WE UND]/& \R RELATION%IP TO EA* O!R & RELATION%IP TO ! L&4 ,!RE'S AN AN?ROPOLOGICAL DEF9ITION ( 0CULTURE0 & !RE'S \R [N DEF9ITION OR UND]/&+ ( ?AT1 :AT ?AT T]M MEANS & H[ WE AGA9 UND]/& \R RELATION%IP TO EA* O!R & ! L&4 ,! DISCUSSION AB\T SPIRITUALITY CAN'T HAPP5 )\T A DISCUSSION AB\T CULTURE & :AT ?AT MEANS & !RE IS CONTEXT TO ?AT4 ,I ?9K !RE IS A VIOL5T CONTEXT ?AT WE HAVE TO COME T]MS ) :5 WE />T TALK+ AB\T ?OSE ?+S4 ,!RE IS A LOT ( TRAUMA ?AT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS ?R\< ?AT DISCUSSION AS WELL4 ,9 ! PA/ :5 ,I W\LD ANSW] ?AT QUE/ION1 :5 ,I ?9K ,I WAS 9 A DIFF]5T PLACE ?AN TODAY1 = ,D9E PEOPLE WE HAVE ,HOZHO'JI :I* IS 0BEAUTY-WAY0 OR MORE WELL DEF9$ ,HOZHO'JI IS A WAY ( HEAL? & H>MONY4 ,BEAUTY IS ?IS SORT ( FETI% AS WELL1 ?AT AN?ROPOLOGI/S >E LIKE 0H]E IS A GREAT DEF9ITION40 ,!Y SORT ( LAT*$ ON TO BUT IT'S DEEP] ?AN ?AT4 ,Y\ KN[ :5 WE AS ,D9E PEOPLE UND]/& ?AT F\NDATION & PHILOSOPHY1 = \R ID5TITY & \R RELATION TO EA* O!R ?R\< ,K'E OR ?R\< \R CLAN SY/EM1 \R RELATION%IP SY/EMS ?AT EXT5D NOT JU/ TO PEOPLE BUT TO \R NATURAL 5VIRONM5T1 TO O!R BE+S4 ,IT'S NOT SOME?+ ?AT Y\ CAN JU/ SAY 0H]E'S :AT ?IS SPIRITUALITY MEANS & ,I'LL GIVE IT Y\40 ,!RE IS ?IS :OLE DEEP] UND]/&+ ( :AT \R C]EMONIAL PRACTICES >E1 = US TO RE/ORE HEAL? & H>MONY ) \R M9D1 \R BODY1 \R SPIRIT1 & \R S\L1 EV5 )9 ?AT4 ,SO ! PROBLEM ?AT WE FACE A LOT IS :5 WE SAY ?AT TO PEOPLE1 IT SEEMS RA!R CONV5I5T JU/ TO TAKE IT1 & JU/ TO DO :AT !Y WANT & ?AT'S EXPLOITATION4 ,TO ME IT JU/ AN ABUSE1 ! PROCESS ?AT WE C>RI$ =W>D4 ,!RE'S A LOT ( 9DIG5\S PEOPLE :O DON'T WANT TO %>E !IR CULTURAL KN[L$GE ( C\RSE1 = GOOD REASON1 'CAUSE IT HAS JU/ BE5 EXPLOIT$ & ABUS$ & PEOPLE JU/ MISUSE IT OR !Y JU/ DI/ORT IT1 & !Y TAKE DIFF]5T P>TS ?AT >E RA!R CONV5I5T = !M :5 !Y HAVE AN ANSW] ?AT RESONATES = !M AT ! TIME4 ,& !N !Y444 

,A6 - 0PICK+ & *OOS+0 

,K- 444 ,I ?9K ?R\< MY EXP]I5CE 7?IS IS :Y ,I PICK$ ON ,S$ONA REALLY QUICKLY7 WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE ,JAMES ,>?UR ,RAY :O WAS SELL+ ,SUN ,DANCES = LIKE @s#a1 & Y\ KN[ PEOPLE :O W]E ULTIMATELY KILL$ BY HIS H& ?R\< HIS APPLICATION1 9T]PRETATION ( SWEAT LODGE1 :O W]E !RE = ! 0,SPIRITUAL ,W>RIOR ,RETREAT0 9 V]Y CLE> QUOTATION M>KS & ?AT'S AN EXTREME BUT ?AT IS :AT WE SEE4 ,?IS EXPLOITATION CONT9UES1 SO1 YEAH MAYBE SOMETIME ALONG ! WAY HE ASK$ ?OSE QUE/IONS & PEOPLE GAVE HIM ANSW]S4 ,I DON'T KN[ BUT ?AT IS HIS APPLICATION4 

,A- ,:AT ,I ID5TIFY ) ?AT 7,I GUESS ,I WANT TO TALK ?R\< :Y IT'S IMPOSSIBLE7 IS ?AT BASICALLY Y\ >E SAY+ ?AT ANYONE :O WANTS TO TAKE ?IS PROJECT S]I\SLY BASICALLY HAS TO COMMIT TO MULTI-G5]ATIONS4 ,9 O!R WORDS1 9DIG5EITY1 :ATEV] ?AT MEANS1 WILL REQUIRE ?AT K9D ( TIME SPAN4 ,IT'S NOT GO+ TO HAPP5 9 Y\R LIFETIME4 ,SO ( C\RSE :Y ?AT'S IMPOSSIBLE IS ! AM]ICAN CONSUM] IS NOT GO+ TO ACCEPT ?AT ?IS IS SOME?+ !Y CAN'T BUY4 ,EV5 IF ! CONSUMPTION WE'RE TALK+ AB\T IS ( AN IDEOLOGY4 

,K - ,= SOME REASON :AT Y\ >E SAY+ REM9DS ( ?IS DISCUSSION >\ND ! APOCALYPSE ?AT ,I HAVE BE5 HAV+ ) FRI5DS 7Y\ KN[ BECAUSE ?+S SEEM V]Y APOCALYPTIC & SO =?74 ,?R\< MY RESE>* IT BECAME CLE>1 & ?IS IS EV5 ,*RI/IANS SAY+ ?IS1 ?AT ,*RI/IANITY IS L9E>1 ) ?IS ,G5ESIS1 ) ! ,*RI/ SACRIFICE OR :ATEV]1 COM+ ( ,*RI/'S SACRIFICE & !N JUDGM5T DAY4 ,ULTIMATELY ! LOGICAL CONCLUSION ( ,*RI/IANITY IS APOCALYPSE1 OR JUDGM5T DAY YA KN[1 AS OPPOS$ TO LOOK+ AT IT FROM AN 9DIG5\S P]SPECTIVE--:I* IS CYCLICAL1 Y\ KN[2 WE >E P>T ( AN ONGO+ PROCESS4 ,SO ,I DON'T SEE A BEG9N+ & 5D TO IT1 ,I SEE IT AS AN ONGO+ PROCESS44 ,I DON'T SEE IT LIKE1 0OH H]E'S VICTORY OV] H]E1 H]E'S A GOAL1 ,I CAN SEE A WAY TO A*IEVE SOME?+ ?AT WE WANT TO ACCOMPLI% :I* IS LIB]ATION ( \R L&S1 ! ?RIV+1 ! CULTURAL VITALITY ( \R PEOPLE & HOPEFULLY ABOLI%+ !SE SY/EMS ( OPPRESSION ?AT >E BUILT UP & RE9=C$ ?R\< COLONIZATION40 ,BUT AT ?IS PO9T1 & ,I DON'T WANT IT TO BE 9T]PRET$ AS BE+ AB/RACT1 'CAUSE IT'S NOT1 IT'S ANY?+ BUT AB/RACT1 IT'S V]Y CLE> 9 RELATION TO ! SY/EM1 IT'S IS AN ONGO+ PROCESS4 ,TO SOME DEGREE ,I ?9K ?AT IS P>T ( ! WE/]N M5TALITY2 IT'S LIKE L9E> ?\<T1 H[ *ANGE IS GONNA COME AB\T4 ,:5 WE LOOK AT ! MULTI-G5]ATIONAL PROJECTS1 ) ! SEV5 G5]ATION CONCEPTS 7EV5 FROM O!R 9DIG5\S NATIONS1 C]TA9LY IT'S PAN-9DIG5\S RI<T N[ ?AT IT CAN BE 9T]PRET$ V]Y EASILY ) O!R 9DIG5\S NATIONS7 9 RELATION TO ! CORE ( \R PRACTICES IS TO 5SURE ?AT CULTURAL KN[L$GE IS TRANSMITT$ & MA9TA9S ITS RELEVANCE OR VITALITY4 ,SO = ME ?AT'S P>T ( IT1 ?9K+ 9 ?AT WAY ?AT WE >E P>T ( A CYCLICAL WAY ( BE+4 ,IT'S NOT SAY+ WE >E GO+ TO SIT ON \R H&S & WAIT = %IT TO *ANGE1 IT'S AB\T DO+ ! BE/ WE CAN N[4 

,A6 - ,DID Y\ SEE ?AT >TICLE ON 9DIG5\S EGOISM8 

,K - ,YEAH YEAH1 ,I READ ?AT4 

,A6 - ,FASC9AT+6 

,K - ,YEAH1 ,I1 WELL1 IT'S NOT FRE% 9 MY M9D BUT P>T ( ! ISSUE ,I HAD ) IT WAS1 JU/ ?IS SORT ( LIKE OV] FOCUS ON 9DIVIDUALISM & :I* TO ME IS AGA9 IS ?IS EXTREMELY WE/]N CONCEPT1 :I* IS 9T]E/+ ,I ?9K BECAUSE 9 ,D9E CULTURE WE HAVE A V]Y /RONG S5SE ( ! 9DIVIDUAL4 ,*ILDR5 >E TAU<T OR TREAT$ AS 9DIVIDUALS :5 !Y >E Y\NG1 BUT 9 RELATION TO EA* O!R1 !RE IS ?IS SORT ( LIKE SEP>ATION ( ! S5SE ( 0COMMUNITY04 ,?AT'S :AT ,I WANT$ TO ASK ! AU?OR1 :AT WAS H] UPBR++1 :AT WAS H] EXP]I5CE4 ,H[ CAN ,I TAKE :AT !Y SAID AB\T EGOISM & APPLY IT TO MY COMMUNITY8 ,I DON'T ?9K IT CONNECTS4 ,IT IS P>T ( ! REASON ,I AM GU>D$ ) MY WORDS OR ,I AM FAIRLY *OOSY SOMETIMES4 ,I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK 9 !SE G5]ALITIES1 BECAUSE ?AT IS :AT PEOPLE EXPECT4 ,IT'S JU/ LIKE :5 TALK+ TO 9DIG5\S PEOPLE1 OH Y\ SPEAK = EV]YBODY4 ,& PEOPLE WANT SOME PAN-9DIG5\S SOLUTION4 ,EV5 P>T ( ! :OLE ,ZAPATISMO F$ 9TO ?AT TO SOME DEGREE2 !Y W]E V]Y SM>T AB\T US+ ?AT TO !IR TACTICAL ADVANTAGE TO SOME DEGREE4 ,BUT IT'S1 ,I'M AT ! PO9T RI<T N[ :]E ,I AM /ILL PLAY+ ) ALL ( !SE CONCEPTS IDEOLOGICALLY & TRY+ TO RECONCILE H[ !Y WORK FROM A CULTURAL P]SPECTIVE & !N APPLY !M1 'CAUSE ,I DON'T WANT TO EV] GET CAU<T 9 ?AT TRAP ( ! !ORY & %IT4 ,IT'S ALWAYS ON ! GR\ND = ME4 44 ,I W\LD LIKE TO TALK TO ! AU?OR MORE JU/ TO GET A S5SE ( :AT !IR EXP]I5CES HAVE BE54 ,& ,I NE$ TO READ IT AGA94 ,LIKE ,I SAID IT'S NOT FRE% 9 MY M9D4 ,BUT ?AT WAS LIKE ! FIR/ ?+4 ,IT WAS JU/ LIKE OH GREAT1 ANO!R VOICE ?AT'S LIKE1 = ! EGOI/S & RE9=C+ ! HYP]-9DIVIDUALISM & WAIT !RE IS LIKE ?IS /RET* & CONNECTION TO 9DIG5EITY & ,I AM JU/ LIKE1 ,I'VE NEV] SE5 ?AT4 ,9 EV]Y COMMUNITY ,I HAVE VISIT$ & TRAVEL$ TO & 

,A6 - ,WELL Y\ HAVE GIV5 ME A C\PLE ( ?+S TO ?9K AB\T4 ,I ?9K ?AT ?IS DECOLONIZE1 ANTI-DECOLONIZATION DIFF]5TIATION444 ,I ?9K !RE IS SOME?+ 9T]E/+ !RE4 ,FIR/ ( ALL IT IS A FANTA/IC WAY TO BREAK AWAY FROM ! DECOLONIZATION1 ! WAY IT IS BE+ FRAM$ RI<T N[ IS NOT QUITE TOXIC1 BUT444 

,K - ,I ?9K IT'S HI<LY TOXIC1 CAUSE FROM :AT ,I SEE FROM A NON-9DIG5\S P]SPECTIVE TO !SE >EAS1 PAT5TLY :ITE--= ! MO/ P>T--P]SPECTIVE4 ,IT BECOMES A P]SONAL PROJECT & WE DON'T NE$ MORE PEOPLE JU/ RUNN+ >\ND ) !SE444 

,A6 - ,BY :I* Y\ MEAN A PROCESS ( P]SONAL SELF-REVELATION8 

,K - ,YES4 ,& ULTIMATE GRATIFICATION4 

,A6 -  ,MY QUE/ION = Y\1 & ,I WILL FRAME IT 9 ! =M ( ADVICE4 ,SO ?IS NEW PROJECT3 MY GOAL IS TO BE ! $ITOR EM]ITUS ( ?IS PROJECT4 ,9 O!R WORDS1 ,I MAKE IT HAPP5 FROM ! P]SPECTIVE ( RES\RCES & ,I OP5 MY ROLODEX TO MAKE SURE GOOD WRIT]S & PEOPLE F9D ! PROJECT1 BUT ,I AM V]Y S]I\S AB\T ?IS4 ,I REALLY WANT A TRANS=MATION ALONG L9ES ?AT WE HAVE ALREADY DISCUSS$1 SPECIFICALLY ALONG ! L9E ( TALK+ AB\T ,NATIVE /UFF 9 A DIFF]5T WAY1 9 A NOT FETI%IZ+ WAY & HAV+ VOICES1 V>I$ VOICES444 

,K - ,BEYOND ! USUAL SUSPECTS448 

,A6 - ,YEAH1 SO MY SUSPICION IS ?AT :AT ?AT IS GO+ TO HAVE TO LOOK LIKE IS ME DO+ A LOT ( 9T]VIEWS4 ,WE >E TALK+ AB\T A GRE5 AN>*I/ PUBLICATION1 BUT ,I REALLY W\LD LIKE IT TO LOOK LIKE ! ,GRE5 ,AN>*ISM ?AT ,I W\LD LIKE TO CREATE444 ,I ?9K Y\ & ,I HAVE A BIT ( A S5SE AS TO :AT ?AT W\LD LOOK LIKE1 SO H[ TO DO ?IS CORRECTLY8 ,BECAUSE FIR/ ( ALL1 ,I HAVE TO SAY1 IF Y\ LOOK AT TODAY VS4 T5 YE>S AGO !RE'S A HELL ( A LOT MORE PEOPLE TO TALK TO4 ,I MEAN IT'S UNBELIEVABLE4 ,IT'S REALLY UNBELIEVABLE H[ MANY MORE PEOPLE !RE >E ?AT HAVE COME 9TO AN>*ISM4 ,H[ W\LD Y\ DO IT IF Y\ W]E ME8 

,K - ,I KN[ H[ ,I W\LDN'T DO IT1 UN=TUNATELY ?AT IS A LOT ( MY 9ITIAL RESPONSE4 ,I ?9K P>T ( IT IS JU/ BE+ ON ! GR\ND ) FOLKS & CONNECT+ ) FOLKS :O >E ON ! FRONT L9ES & BE+ OP5 TO A S5SE ?AT NOT EV]YBODY'S GONNA HAVE ! >TICULATE ACADEMIC VOICE & JU/ MAK+ SURE ?AT PEOPLE FEEL COM=TABLE 5GAG+ & ?AT IT'S NOT JU/ GONNA BE SOME TYPE ( HO/ILE PLACE = !M4 ,:5 ,I />T$ DO+ M$IA WORK IT WAS P>TLY \T ( JU/ ! FRU/RATION ) FOLKS JU/ /ICK+ ?IS L5S & EXOTIFY+1 ESS5TIALIZ+1 & PICK+ (F ! ?+S !Y FELT W]E SEXY = O!R PEOPLE TO PAY ATT5TION TO )\T DEAL+ ) ! FULL RANGE ( :O WE >E 9 ALL \R CONTRADICTIONS & CONFLICTS AS 9DIG5\S FOLKS4 ,MAYBE E/ABLI%+ ?IS S5SE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ?AT EXPLICIT BUT TRY+ TO DEVELOP ?AT RELATION%IP4 ,Y\ WANT TO DISSUADE ! CULTURAL PIMPS TO SOME DEGREE & Y\ WANT TO GET ! HE>T ( ?IS DISC\RSE_/DISCUSSION CAUSE IT S\NDS LIKE P>T ( ! OBJECTIVE IS TO AMPLIFY 9DIG5\S VOICES 9 TO ! L>G] AN>*I/ MILIEU1 TO ASS]T ANO!R DIRECTION OR YA KN[ JU/ ANO!R OPTION = FOLKS TO EMBRACE !IR FI<TS4 ,I GUESS ?AT'S LIKE MY 9ITIAL REACTION :5 ,I HE>D4 ,:AT IS 9DIG5EITY MEAN = O!R FOLKS :O >E NOT 9DIG5\S TO ?IS >EA4 ,!RE MI<T BE SOME PEOPLE :O WANT TO 5GAGE 9 ?AT DISCUSSION4 ,LIKE ,I SAID BE=E1 ,I DON'T KN[ H[ 9T]E/$ ,I AM 9 FOCUS+ ON ?AT AS MU* AS JU/ DRAW+ SOME B\ND>IES1 & SAY+ 0HEY MAYBE ?IS IS A GOOD PLACE = Y\ ALL TO FOCUS Y\R FI<T0 & MAK+ SURE PEOPLE >5'T JU/ 7= LACK ( BETT] T]MS7 ,ZAPATI/A-FY+ ALL !SE EXT]NAL /RUGGLES )\T SAY+ 0OH WAIT1 RI<T1 H]E WE >E ON ,TONGVAN 7,9DIG5\S FOLKS ( ,L,A >EA7 L&1 MAYBE WE %\LD BUILD A RELATION%IP ) !M & MAYBE IT IS GO+ TO TAKE A LOT LONG] ?AN WE WANT & MAYBE !Y DON'T HAVE ! >TICULAT$ POSITION ?AT'S CONV5I5T = US TO JU/ TRANSPOSE !IR POLITICS & \R POLITICS 9T]*ANGEABLY40 

,A6 - ,BUT ,I GUESS1 ?AT'S TALK+ AB\T FI<T+ A FI<T ) PEOPLE ON ! GR\ND4 ,Y\'RE ANSW]+ ?AT QUE/ION ALREADY ) :AT Y\'RE DO+ H]E4 ,IT'S NOT EXACTLY :AT ,I AM ASK+4 ,H[ MANY PEOPLE DO Y\ KN[ >E CONFID5T TO SAY SOME?+ *ALL5G+1 H[ MANY ( ?OSE PEOPLE C\LD SAY IT 9 PR9T VS FACE TO FACE1 H[ MANY ( ?OSE PEOPLE W\LD IT TAKE DAYS TO DEVELOP A RELATION%IP BE=E !Y W\LD SAY IT8 ,CAUSE IF ?AT IS ! ONLY OPTION !N IF Y\ PO9T ME TO ! RI<T P]SON ,I AM WILL+ TO DO IT4 

,K - ,YEAH1 SO H[ IT C\LD BE DONE IS E/ABLI%+ A NETWORK4 ,BUT FOLKS NE$ TO HAVE A DEMON/RAT$ S5SE ?AT IT'S NOT JU/ SOME EXPLOITATIVE WORK OR SOME?+ ?AT'S HO/ILE4 ',CAUSE LIKE ,I SAID4 ,WE HAVE A LOT ( %IT LESSONS4 ,IT'S P>T ( ! REASON A LOT ( NATIVE FOLKS DON'T GO TO ! ,BAY ,>EA ,AN>*I/ ,BOOK ,FAIR4 ,WE HAVE A LOT ( %IT LESSONS4 ,IT'S P>T ( ! REASON :Y A LOT ( ,O'ODHAM FOLKS \TSIDE ( ,PH5IX DON'T 5GAGE ) RADICAL FOLKS4 ,I KN[ SOME COMMUNITIES :]E PEOPLE HAVE ONLY GOTT5 HO/ILITY4 ,SO !RE IS NOT A GOOD RELATION%IP4 ,/>T+ 9 ! ,S\?WE/1 LIKE Y\ SAID !RE IS ?IS /RONG CULTURAL BASE1 & P>T ( ! HI/ORY ( ?AT UN=TUNATELY IS BECAUSE A LOT ( ! COLONIZ]S1 ,I MEAN WE F\<T (F ! ,SPANI% = #ce YE>S BUT A LOT ( ! COLONIZ]S RU%$ PA/ US = ! GOLD 9 ,CALI=NIA4 ,HONE/LY1 LOOK+ AT SOME ( ! SACR$ SITES >EAS444 ,LIKE ,I SAID1 P>T ( ! REASON PEOPLE >E SO AGGRESSIVELY FI<T+ = SACR$ SITES & A LOT ( Y\NG PEOPLE IS BECAUSE ONE1 !Y >E 9 >EAS :]E !RE IS /ILL AN 9TACT RELATION%IP SO IT MEETS SOME ( ! CRIT]IA ?AT Y\ E/ABLI%$ BE=E4 ,& ?OSE FOLKS UND]/& ! RISK & !Y >E 5GAG+ ON MULTIPLE FRONTS4 ,I ?9K MAYBE HITT+ SOME ( ?OSE PLACES OR JU/ REA*+ \T TO PEOPLE4444 ,JU/ FOCUS+ ON ! PROJECT FIR/1 Y\R AUDI5CE1 AGA94 ,JU/ TO HE> IT A LITTLE MORE CLE>LY4 

,A6 -44 ,?AT'S A GREAT QUE/ION4 ,I ASSUME ?AT ! AUDI5CE IS ! AUDI5CE ( ! LA/ MAGAZ9E BUT P]HAPS ?AT'S SLOPPY4 ,SO ! PROVOCATION IS H[ TO MAKE IT BETT]1 H[ TO REA* A DIFF]5T SET ( PEOPLE1 & ,I W\LD SAY 9 G5]AL ?AT ,I HAVE NOT DONE A P>TICUL>LY GOOD JOB (444 ! T]M WE USE IS M>KET+4 ,?IS IS A M>KET+ PROBLEM4 ,H[ DO Y\ F9D1 ESPECIALLY S9CE ,I AM1 LIKE MO/ AN>*I/S1 BY & L>GE ISOLAT$ FROM ! RE/ ( ! WORLD1 BY ! WALL ( !M NOT C>+ AB\T ! WAY WE PUT ?+S & US BE+ F9E ) ?AT4 ,SO IF ,I BREAK \T ( ?AT = A SECOND & ?9K1 ! PROBLEM ) GRE5 DISC\RSE IS ?AT IT'S1 TO USE A LOAD$ WORD1 APOCALYPTIC1 & ! 9FLU5CE ( AN?ROPOLOGY1 GRE5 CAPITALISM1 & *RI/IANITY4 

,K - ,I GUESS :5 ,I ASK ?AT QUE/ION1 P>T ( IT IS AB\T :5 Y\ W]E TALK+ AB\T WANT+ TO REA* \T TO DIFF]5T CONTRIBUTORS1 F9D A RANGE ( VOICES4 ,P>T ( ?AT QUE/ION IS1 :AT RELEVANCE IS ?IS TO MY COMMUNITY4 ,IT'S A QUE/ION ( DI/RIBUTION & DISSEM9ATION & 0,9DIAN ,C\NTRY0 TOO1 MAYBE JU/ LOOK+ AT H[ ?AT WILL WORK \T & H[ ?AT C\LD LOOK4 ,!RE HAS BE5 A RANGE ( DIFF]5T PROJECTS1 ! GOOD ONES BE+ 9 ,CANADA1 ! MORE A-POLITICAL & MORE >TS-FOCUS$ ONES H]E 9 ! ,U,S & EV5 !M BE+ SOME:AT LIMIT$ & BE+ A QUE/ION4 ,I DON'T FEEL AS WELL V]S$ 9 BRIDG+ 9DEG5EITY 7:I* TO ME FEELS /ILL MORE LIKE AN ACADEMIC T]M7 & AN>*ISM2 Y\ HAVE A LOT ( 9T]E/+ WRIT+S ?AT EXPLORE ?AT4 ,MORE JU/ Y\R P]SPECTIVES & :AT Y\ HAVE COME TO UND]/&4 ,LA/ TIME WE TALK$ Y\ SAID Y\ W]E AN AN>*I/ )\T ADJECTIVES4 ,I DON'T FEEL UNEASY AB\T SAY+ ,I AM AN 9DIG5\S AN>*I/ BUT 9DIG5\S ALWAYS COMES FIR/2 ?IS IS :AT ,I HAVE TO PREFACE ! DISCUSSION )4 ,& MY AFF9ITY ) AN>*ISM IS ?R\< DIRECT ACTION1 ACT+ )\T M$IATION 9 ! RANGE ( VALUES1 LIKE MUTUAL AID4 ,:I* SOMETIMES RE9=CES ?AT S5SE ( COMMUNITY4 ,TO ME IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BEYOND ! MUTUAL H]E1 BUT TO ME IT CONNOTATES ?AT TO SOME DEGREE4 ,! RANGE ( O!R BASIC QUALIFICATIONS = AN>*ISM4 ,BUT ,I'M CURI\S 'CAUSE Y\ OBVI\SLY DIG DEEP1 V]Y DEEP4 ,:AT'S Y\R EXPRESSION8 ,I READ SOME?+ A :ILE BACK1 ?AT ,I AM PRETTY SURE WAS WRITT5 BY Y\ ?AT WAS AB\T ,LOCAT+ ,AN ,9DIG5\S ,AN>*ISM & ,I W5T BACK & READ ?AT SOME TIME AGO4 ,IT WAS MORE OR LESS1 IT ALMO/ FELT LIKE IT WAS A LONG+ = SOME?+ AS OPPOS$ TO ID5TIFY+ AS MU*4 ,:I* ,I APPRECIAT$4 

,A6 - ,IT IS ALSO ! NATURE ( BE+ AN URBAN1 MIX$ ,9DIAN4 ,IT'S A V]Y DIFF]5T EXP]I5CE ?AN Y\RS4 ,BUT1 ,I ?9K ?AT :]E ,I BEG91 IS PROBABLY 9 ?IS SPACE ( HAV+ A SUSPICION ?AT MY [N 9T]NAL CONFLICT IS444 ON ! ONE H&1 ,I ?9K ?AT US+ ! WORD 0AN>*I/0 HAS MAGIC P[]S4 ,?AT'S ON ! ONE H&4 ,ON ! O!R H& ,I ?9K ?AT ! AN>*I/IC 9/9CTS >E G5]ALIZABLE4 ,! 9T]E/+ P>T IS 9 ! SPECIFICS1 BUT ?AT MANY ( ! #e HAD AN>*I/IC S5SIBILITIES4 ,SO ,I'M NOT EXCIT$ AB\T ! ,IROQUOIS 7:I* SOME AN>*I/S HAVE BECOME EXCIT$ AB\T CAUSE !Y MODEL AFT] !M !IR IDEALIZ$ ORGANIZATIONAL CONFIGURATION OR :ATEV]74 ,= ME ,I AM MU* MORE 9T]E/$ 9 ! SMALL /ORIES ( H[ ONE'S ELD]S COMMUNICATE IDEAS ( H[ TO BEHAVE & ,I ?9K SOME:]E 9 ?OSE /ORIES IS SOME?+ REALLY DIFF]5T4 ,I FEEL LIKE ,I AM NOT EV5 A GOOD 5\< /ORYTELL]2 ! OLD] PEOPLE 9 MY LIFE HAVE BE5 FANTA/IC /ORYTELL]S4 ,IT TOOK ME YE>S TO FIGURE \T :AT !Y W]E DRIV+ AT4 ,SO = ME ! *ALL5GE TO AN>*I/S IS1 :AT DOES AN>*ISM LOOK LIKE IF IT DOESN'T USE ! WORD8 ,! O!R P>T ( ?IS IS ?AT ,I HAVE MORE 9FLU5CE ?AN MANY PEOPLE 9 ! AN>*I/ SPACE4 ,IF ,I WANT TO DO A GRE5 AN>*I/ PUBLICATION ,I CAN & PEOPLE >E GO+ TO READ IT4 ,SO ! POLITICAL MOTIVATION H]E IS ?AT ,I WANT ?IS /ORY TO BE :AT ! FUTURE ( AN>*ISM LOOKS LIKE4 ,& ! /ORY IS GO+ TO BE A LONG ONE4 ,IT IS GO+ TO BE DRAWN \T1 & IT'S NOT GONNA BE QUE/ION !N ANSW]4 ,I'M 5\< ( A /RATEGY P]SON1 UP TO N[ ,I HAVE BE5 ABLE TO FIT PIECES \T1 ?9K+ A C\PLE YE>S \T4 ,?IS IS MORE LIKE A T5 YE> FITT+ ?+S TOGE!R4 ,& IT 9VOLVES A LOT ( /RANG]S & A LOT ( SUSPICIONS BUT ,I'M NOT SURE4 44,! FLIP SIDE 9 T]MS ( ! AUDI5CE QUE/ION IS :AT DO ! PEOPLE ,I AM TALK+ TO GET \T ( IT4 ,& ?AT'S IMPORTANT4 ,IT'S NOT JU/ IMPORTANT IT'S A PROBLEM ,I DON'T HAVE AN ANSW] TO4 ,:AT ,I'M TALK+ AB\T W\LD B5EFIT AN>*I/S1 BECAUSE !Y NE$ IT4 ,SO :AT IS IT ?AT AN>*I/S HAVE ?AT C\LD ACTUALLY B5EFIT /RANG]S8 ,& ! ANSW] IS ! SAME ?AT IT ALWAYS IS4 ,RIDICUL\S 5?USIASM1 A LOT ( LAU<T]1 BUT !N1 DANG]4 ,SO YEAH ,I AM GO+ TO HAVE TO ?9K AB\T ?AT SOME MORE4 

,K - ,YEAH1 ?AT'S :]E WE LIKE ,DREW & ,BRIAN'S /ATEM5TS AB\T WANT+ ACCOMPLICES NOT ALLIES4 ,!Y'VE DONE A GREAT JOB ( DECON/RUCT+ F ALLY-%IP4 ,CAUSE ?AT'S P>T ( :AT ,I HOPE GETS SORT$ UP FRONT4 ,IT'S 9T]E/+ ) ?IS CURR5T WAVE ( LIB]AL DISILLUSIONM5T1 ) ! ,OBAMA ADM9I/RATION1 & ,IDLE ,NO MORE1 ! ,KEY/ONE ,X,L PIPEL9E1 ?AT PEOPLE >E PAY+ ATT5TION TO NATIVE /RUGGLES & ?AT !RE IS A BIT ( A SPOTLI<T4 ,& ( C\RSE ! NON-PR(ITS >E FLOCK+1 LIKE ! MO?S ?AT !Y >E1 RA!R BL9D4 ,FITT+ ! METAPHOR V]Y WELL UN=TUNATELY4 ,YEAH IT WILL BE 9T]E/+ TO SEE H[ ?AT PLAYS4 ',CAUSE !RE HAVE BE5 O!R TIMES :5 9DIG5\S /RUGGLES HAVE BE5 SEXY1 & !N PEOPLE JU/ MOVE ON TO ! NEXT 9T]E/+ SPECTACLE4 ,& ?AT'S :AT ,I W\LD HOPE ?IS BASE HAS SOME AV]SION TO4 ,SO ONE QUE/ION ,I HAD = Y\1 ,I GUESS ,I'M /ILL TRY+ TO EXTRACT SOME ( Y\R POLITICS4 ,SO :AT IS Y\R REACTION TO ! /ATEM5T1 WE BELONG TO ! E>?8 ,DO Y\ HAVE AN AFF9ITY = ?AT8 

,A6 - ,I DO BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE ! SORT ( SPECIFICITY ?AT IT DOES = Y\4 ,A LITTLE BIT AB\T MY /ORY2 SO :ILE MY MO!R'S FAMILY IS ALL REGI/]$ ,NATIVE PEOPLE1 MY MAT]NAL GR&FA!R WAS ACTUALLY A ,CANADIAN1 !RE=E HIS QUANTUM DID NOT C\NT4 ,SO ,I'M NOT REGI/]$ MYSELF4 ,BUT MY FA!R1 A :ITE MAN1 LOV$ ,9DIANS4 ,LIKE HE REALLY REALLY LIKE ,9DIANS LIKE HE READ ALL ( ,C>LOS ,CA/5ADA1 HE KN[S ALL ! PIPE C]EMONIES4 ,I MEAN !RE IS NO?+ AB\T ! WE/]N PLA9S 9DIANS ?AT HE DOESN'T KN[4 ,?AT'S :Y HE F\ND MY MO!R4 ,SO :ILE ,I WAS RAIS$ BY MY MOM1 ,I SP5T PL5TY ( TIME ) ?IS GUY :O V]Y MU* FETI%IZ$ ?IS :OLE ASPECT ( MY LIFE4 ,SO MY MO!R'S SPIRITUALITY WAS V]Y QUIET & NOT SPECIFIC4 ,& H] MO!R WAS A CA?OLIC & PRETTY MU* EV]YONE ELSE WAS A CA?OLIC4 ,I HAVE ONE TRADITIONAL RELATIVE1 & %E IS /ILL ALIVE4 ,%E IS ACTUALLY :Y ,I AM GO+ TO MI*IGAN1 & %E WAS RAIS$ BY ,CA?OLICS1 SO ALL ?IS IS V]Y DIFF]5T FROM Y\R EXP]I5CE4 ,SO IT IS MU* MORE ON ! LEVEL ( PLATITUDES ?AN PLACES4.<8.> ,EV5 ?\< ,I CAN GO TO ?IS ,9DIAN VILLAGE1 :I* IS ?IS *ANTY T[N \TSIDE ( ,TRAV]SE ,CITY1 :]E G5]ATIONS ( MY PEOPLE W]E4 ,BUT ?AT WAS A VILLAGE ( TIMB] H\SES4 ,NOT :AT WAS !RE BE=E4 ,SO MY EXP]I5CE IS PO/ G5OCIDE4 ,?IS IS MY LANGUAGE ( C\RSE4 ,Y\ MI<T NOT ACCEPT IT BUT TO ME1 MY /RUGGLE1 :AT DOES LIFE LOOK LIKE1 :AT DOES SPIRITUALITY LOOK LIKE1 MY LANGUAGE IS A C\PLE WORDS & MY GREAT GREAT GR&FA!R :O DI$ :5 ,I WAS SIX1 :O WAS ! LA/ FLU5T NON 5GLI% SPEAK] ?AT ANYONE 9 MY FAMILY KN[S4 ,SO TO ME1 ! QUE/ION IS :AT DOES LIFE LOOK LIKE 9 !SE SORT ( RU9S4 ,:I* IS K9D ( :Y ,I DON'T TALK AB\T IT SO MU*1 'CAUSE ?AT IS :AT LIFE 9 ! RU9S IS LIKE4 ,BUT ,I KN[ ?AT SOME?+ 9 H]E IS V]Y IMPORTANT & ,I KN[ ?AT SOME?+ IS MISS+4 ,& ,I WAS RAIS$ ) ALL ! URBAN 9DIAN PROBLEMS4 ,ALCOHOLISM1 VIOL5CE1 ETC4 ,BUT ?OSE >E ! PROBLEMS ( URBAN PEOPLE ( COLOR4 ,OBVI\SLY NATIVES HAVE GOT A SP94 ,BUT ?IS ISN'T A TRIUMPHANT /ORY4 ,I DON'T HAVE A GOOD TO REFLECT AGA9/ ! BAD4 ,SO :ILE ,I AM WILL+ TO GO \T & SAY SPIRITUALITY IS POSSIBLE & ,I CAN EV5 SAY !RE WAS A PLACE :]E ,I SP5T A LOT ( MY Y\? ?AT WAS P>TICUL>LY IMPORTANT1 ,I CAN'T BRIDGE ?IS SORT ( EXI/5TIAL GAP4 ,I PO9T TO ?AT GAP AS BE+ ! G5OCIDE GAP4 ,MY LANGUAGE IS H>% BUT ?AT IS ! WAY ?AT ,I W\LD PUT IT4 

,K - ,YEAH1 ?AT MAKES S5SE4 ,IT'S A LOT TO ?9K AB\T = SURE4 ,?ANKS = %>+1 APPRECIATE IT4 ,YEAH ,I GUESS ?AT P>T ( IT IS :AT'S WOR? FI<T+ =4 ,:5 Y\ TALK AB\T FATALISM1 ?AT IS P>T ( ! QUE/ION = ME4 

,A6 - ,( C\RSE1 RI<T4 ,AT C]TA9 PO9TS 9 MY LIFE1 ,I ABSOLUTELY ?\<T !RE W]E ?+S WOR? FI<T+ = & OV] TIME ,I SAW H[ ?9 & %AD[Y !Y W]E4 ,SO ,I F\<T AGA9/ NAZI-SK9HEADS :5 ,I WAS A KID4 ,I DID A :OLE V>IETY ( IRRESPONSIBLE ?+S 9 ! BELIEF ?AT IT HAD ?IS C]TA9 RESONANCE ?AT IT DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAVE OR ?AT IT HAD = ME ONLY AT ?AT TIME 4 ,I'M NOT TRY+ TO DEMEAN MY [N EXP]I5CES BUT :AT Y\'RE TALK+ AB\T IS DIFF]5T4 ,BECAUSE ( ! ?REE ?+S OR :ATEV]4 

,K - ,I KN[ Y\ HAVE *ALL5G$ ME ) ?AT QUE/ION1 ( H[ UNIQUE 9TACT 9DIG5\S CULTURES :O MEET ?OSE ?REE CRIT]IA >E4 ,SO Y\ >E 5GAG+ 9 ?IS PROJECT & Y\ PUT \T SOME ANALYZES SOMETIME OR JU/ /ORIES Y\ %>E REG>D+ 9DIG5EITY4 ,I WANT TO SEE :AT ! *ANCE IS1 'CAUSE Y\ PUT 9 MY FACE A LITTLE BIT AB\T :AT CAN BE DONE ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL4 ,:AT >E WE ASK+ OR URG+ PEOPLE TO DO OR MOVE T[>DS1 :AT >E WE 9SPIR+4 ,I GUESS ?AT'S MAYBE 9 SOME WAY1 %APE1 OR =M TO JU/ PUT ?AT BALL 9 Y\R C\RT & MAYBE HE> Y\R ?\<TS AB\T ?AT4 ,CAUSE IF WE TALK AB\T H[ FEW 9DIG5\S NATIONS MA9TA91 ?AT KEEP ?AT FIRE BURN+444 

,A6 - ,HAVE ! CAPACITY TO4 

,K - ,CAUSE WE LOOK AT SOME ( ! 9DIG5\S NATIONS 9 ,CALI=NIA :O HAVE GOTT5 JU/ DI/URB+LY RI* (F ( CAS9OS1 COMPLETELY REMOV$ FROM !IR LANGUAGE1 SPIRITUAL PRACTICE1 & SO =?1 NOT NECESS>ILY !IR L& BASE1 & SO !RE >E A C\PLE ( TRIBES ?AT WE MET1 OR 9DIG5\S NATIONS ?AT WE MET ?AT >E JU/ TRAVEL+ TO O!R 9DIG5\S NATIONS & ?R\< A PROCESS ?AT !Y JU/ SORT ( DEVELOP$1 BASICALLY %>+ & LE>N+ FROM O!R NEI<BOR+ TRIBES BUT O!R TRIBES FROM O!R >EAS4 ,& IT WAS QUITE 9T]E/+ CAUSE !Y W]E JU/ COLLECT+ TO E/ABLI% A CULTURE1 :I* IS BE+ DONE 9 A WAY1 BECAUSE !Y W]E UP FRONT ) O!R NATIONS PEOPLE W]E %>+4 ,& !Y'RE DO+ 9 A WAY ?AT WASN'T JU/ CON/RUCT+ SOME?+ FALSE NECESS>ILY1 BECAUSE !Y >E DO+ ) A S5SE (--NOT NECESS>ILY RE/OR+ !IR CONNECTION BUT--RE/OR+ A CONNECTION TO ! L&4 ,I'M SURE ?AT FROM AN AN?ROPOLOGICAL P]SPECTIVE !RE IS SOME K9D ( NAME = IT OR :ATEV]4 ,Y\ KN[ ?AT'S JU/ :AT !Y >E DO+ TO HEAL4 

,A6 - ,?AT'S :AT !Y GOT4 ,BUT ! COMPLICATION ( C\RSE IS ?AT BY & L>GE ?IS IS P>T ( ! PROCESS !Y HAVE TO GO ?R\< TO GET GOV]NM5T RECOGNITION4 ,:I* 9 SOME OCCASIONS HAS BE5 CONNECT$ TO CAS9OS & O!R COMM]CIAL 5T]PRISE444 ,9 ,MI*IGAN IT IS AB\T FI%+ RI<TS4 ,FI%+ RI<TS IS BIG4 

,K - ,YEAH1 IT'S LIKE1 ,I GUESS Y\ W]E ASK+1 ,:]E DO Y\ SEE ?+S 9 #a YE>S OR T5 YE>S OR :ATEV]4 ,?AT'S P>T ( IT TOO ,I GUESS1 JU/ PUTT+ P>T ( ?AT DISCUSSION BACK 9 ! MIX4 

,A6 - ,! WAY ,I APPROA* ?IS PROBLEM IS SOME:AT DIFF]5T1 & P]HAPS IT IS BECAUSE ,I HAVE READ TOO MU* PHILOSOPHY4 ,WE/]N PHILOSOPH]S HAVE DONE A LOT ( GOOD ?9K+ AB\T !IR 5EMIES4 ,I'M SURE ?AT !RE IS SOMEONE :O IS WAIT+ 9 ! %AD[S AGA9/ EV]Y >GUM5T ?AT ,I C\LD POSSIBLY HAVE AGA9/ !M4 ,BUT ,I BASICALLY DESIRE ! DISMANTL+ ( ! WE/]N PROJECT 9 ALL ( ITS SUNDRY =MS & SO SPECIFICALLY 9 ?IS CASE :AT ,I AM AB\T TO TALK AB\T1 MY LANGUAGE1 IS ! CAUSAL *A9 ?AT PEOPLE CREATE BETWE5 ACTION & SPIRIT4 

,K- ,CAUSAL ALLUD+ TO CAUSALITY8 

,A6 - ,RI<T1 CAUSE & EFFECT IS ONE P>T ( IT1 BUT ALSO ?IS IDEA ?AT E?ICS IS :Y ,I *OSE TO SIT H]E & TALK TO Y\ RA!R ?AN WALK OV] TO Y\ & PUN* Y\ 9 ! FACE4 ,I FEEL LIKE ALL ( ?IS IS444 WRONG IS TOO SIMPLE1 BUT !RE'S SOME?+ 9 ! WAY ?AT ALL ( !SE >E CON/RUCT$ ?AT ,I HAVE A VISC]AL REVULSION TO1 & ,I'M NOT JU/ GO+ TO PULL IT \T & SAY ?AT !RE IS SOME?+ JU/ SPIRITUAL1 BUT ,I C\LD4 ,BUT :AT ,I'LL SAY IS ?AT1 A LOT ( QUE/IONS ?AT ! WE/]N M9D ?9KS >E ANSW]$1 = ME >E MY/]IES1 & !Y >E ONLY SATISFY+ & ,I CAN ONLY BE SATISFI$ BY !M AS LONG AS !Y /AY MY/]IES4 ,& ! EXT5T TO :I* ONE WANTS TO ANSW] !M1 ,I USUALLY CONSID] ?AT P]SON TO BE SOMEONE ,I AM HO/ILE T[>DS4 ,?AT MAKE S5SE8 

,K - ,ABSOLUTELY4 

,A6 - ,SO1 BY & L>GE :5 SOMEONE ASKS ME ! QUE/ION1 :Y >E Y\ DO+ :AT Y\ >E DO+1 MY ANSW] IS FUCK Y\4 ,SO ,I AM A DEEP PESSIMI/ :O PUTS \T A BOOK A MON?4 ,MANY ( !SE BOOKS >E AB\T ACTIONS ?AT HAPP5 ON ! /REET4 ,LIKE ONE ( \R NEWE/ BOOKS IS AB\T /REET TACTICS4 ,BUT ,I DON'T BELIEVE 9 FI<T+ ON ! /REET4 ,BUT ,I PUT \T A BOOK A MON?4 ,SO !RE ISN'T AN ANSW] TO Y\R QUE/ION O!R ?AN ?IS MY/]Y ?AT IS DEF9ITELY MY PREF]R$ MODE4 ,YE/]DAY ,I WAS TALK+ ) SOMEONE AB\T ! DIFF]5CE BETWE5 SOCIAL & ANTI-SOCIAL ACTIVITIES & ,I MORE OR LESS ID5TIFI$ AS BE+ = ANTI-SOCIAL ACTIVITIES4 ,I WAS BASICALLY ASK$1 0,H[ CAN Y\ BE = 9FRA/RUCTURE & ANTI-SOCIAL ACTIVITIES80 ,& ! ANSW] ?AT ,I GAVE !M1 DIFF]5T CONTEXT1 BUT :ATEV]1 SPUN MY LITTLE /ORY 9 A DIFF]5T WAY1 BUT BASICALLY ,I SAID1 ,I BELIEVE 9 ! P[] ( S$UCTION4 .<BO? LAU<.> ,SO4 ,YEAH4 .<PAUSE.> 

,K - ,I WASN'T TRY+ TO ASK Y\ :Y Y\ >E DO+ :AT Y\ >E DO+ AT ALL4 ,I QUE/ION$ E>LI] 0:AT'S WOR? FI<T+ =40 ,IS IT 9 RELATION TO JU/ LOOK+ AT SOME ( ! CORE VALUES BEH9D Y\R ?\<T4 ,SOMETIMES ?AT QUE/ION AB\T BELONG+ TO ! E>? IRRITATES EGOI/S4 ,I DON'T' ?9K !Y LIKE TO BELONG TO ANY?+1 :I* IS QUITE 9T]E/+4 ,I LIKE TO CONC]N MYSELF ) NOT JU/ \TPUTT+ OR MAK+ LOTS ( ?+S BUT ?9K+ AB\T :AT ! \TCOMES >E4 ,IT'S LIKE ! /RATEGIC OR TACTICAL ?+ ?AT'S BE5 +RA9$ 9 ME4 ,JU/ LIKE DO+ LOTS ( 9EFFECTIVE ?+S = SO LONG1 Y\ JU/ GOTTA TRY TO CONSID] O!R OPTIONS4 ,SO SOMETIMES Y\ JU/ GOTTA ?9K AB\T ! PROJECT ?AT Y\ >E WORK+ ON & H[ ,I CAN PUT 5]GY 9TO ?AT TOO1 APPLY IT TO !SE >EAS & MOVE MY AG5DA1 MY PROJECT ALONG1 :I* ,I ID5TIFY AS ESS5TIALLY 9DIG5\S LIB]ATION1 YA KN[1 RE9=C+ RESI/ANCE & ULTIMATELY LIB]ATION4 

,A6 - ,I JU/ DON'T PUT ?+S LIKE ?AT AT ALL4 ,!RE IS SOME?+ 9 ?AT K9D ( TRIUMPHALISM4 ,I RECOGNIZE H[ IT'S A GOOD COMMUNICATION SKILL TO BE ABLE TO TALK LIKE ?AT4 .<LAU<S.> ,I PREF] TO NOT BE UND]/OOD AS F> AS ?AT GOES4 

,K - ,YEA1 IT'S 9T]E/+4 ,I GUESS ?AT'S :Y ,I KEEP REVISIT+ SOME /UFF CAUSE IT'S 9T]E/+ & ,I'M TRY+ TO ELICIT A BIT MORE UND]/&+ = MYSELF & ,I APPRECIATE Y\R RESPONSE ( S$UCTION & ,I APPRECIATE READ+ /UFF FROM ! FOLKS 9 ,ITALY :O >E TOR*+ %IT & TALK+ AB\T DESIRE4 ,I DON'T LIKE TO FALL 9TO ! TROPE TRAPS & SOMETIMES FEEL MYSELF1 LIKE ,I SAID E>LI]1 FE$+ 9TO !M4 ,& ,I DO NE$ TO HAVE MORE DISCUSSIONS & READ MORE AB\T SOME ( !SE ?+S TO SOME DEGREE BECAUSE ,I FEEL444 

,A6 - ,LET ME1 ,I WILL MAYBE SAY :AT Y\ >E TRY+ TO GET AT FROM A V]Y DIFF]5T PLACE1 MAYBE FROM A P]SPECTIVE Y\ WON'T APPRECIATE4 ,!RE IS A REASON :Y PEOPLE >E TURN+ TO Y\ TO TALK AS A SPOKESP]SON1 & IT'S BECAUSE Y\ KN[ H[ TO TALK AS A SPOKESP]SON4 

,K - ,?ANKS = ! 9SULT1 BUT YES1 PO9T TAK54444 ,I ?9K ?AT IT IS REALLY 9T]E/+ TO SEE ! T5D5CIES 9 RADICAL CIRCLES 9 RELATION TO ! ANTI-POLITIC1 & PRIVILEGE !ORY1 & ID5TITY POLITICS /UFF4 

,A6 - ,:5 Y\ REF] TO PRIVILEGE !ORY :AT DO Y\ MEAN8 

,K - ,WELL1 PRIM>ILY ,I AM REF]R+ TO FOLKS ADDRESS+ ID5TITY POLITICS 9 RELATION TO SAY+ 0WE NE$ TO DECON/RUCT ?IS DISC\RSE >\ND PRIVILEGE0 & JU/ GO BEYOND ?AT & JU/ FOCUS ON COLLECTIVE LIB]ATION4 ,ESS5TIALLY ?AT1 LIKE ,&REA ,SMI? JU/ WROTE AN ESSAY ?AT WAS TALK+ AB\T444 ESS5TIALLY JU/ >GU+ = COLLECTIVE LIB]ATION TO OCCUR1 WE NE$ TO /OP HAV+ !SE DISCUSSIONS ?AT TURN 9TO CONFESSIONALS AB\T EA* O!R'S PRIVILEGES & PEOPLE SORT ( ATON+ = !IR S9S ( PRIVILEGE & JU/ MOVE BEYOND ?AT4 ,P>T ( :AT O!R FOLKS HAVE DISCUSS$ TOO IS JU/ 5SUR+ ?AT FOLKS >E TAK+ 9ITIATIVE & NOT JU/ OBJECTIFY+ 9DIG5\S PEOPLE OR JU/ OBJECTIFY+ EV5 !IR S5SES ( :AT ! OPPRESSION IS4 444 ,I ?9K ! BOTTOM L9E IS ?AT ?IS !ORY BAS$ >\ND 0IF WE ALL COME TO T]MS ) & [N \R [N PRIVILEGE & DECON/RUCT IT !N WE >E GO+ TO GET TO :]EV] WE NE$ TO BE10 & ULTIMATELY ?AT JU/ TURNS 9 ON ITSELF & NEUTRALIZES PEOPLE & ULTIMATELY ! RESULT IS ?AT :OEV] >E ! OPPRESS$ GR\P >E /ILL OBJECTIFI$4 ,WE >E JU/ TRY+ TO MOVE BEYOND ?AT4 ,?AT IS MY UND]/&+1 ,I ?9K !RE IS MORE TO IT4 

,A6 - ,YEAH1 ,I GUESS ,I AM CURI\S AS TO :Y Y\ C>E AB\T ?IS8 

,K - ,I GUESS A LOT ( O!R PEOPLE C>E AB\T IT & IT SEEMS LIKE ! T]MS TO 5GAGE 9 ALLY%IP & SUPPORT444 ,! BOTTOM L9E IS ?AT WE CAN'T DO ?IS ALONE4 ,COLLECTIVE LIB]ATION MEANS SOME?+ ELSE :5 ,I TALK TO O!R ,D9E PEOPLE OR O!R 9DIG5\S PEOPLE & C]TA9LY :5 ,I TALK AB\T RESI/ANCE & LIB]ATION /RUGGLES ) ! :ITE FOLKS WE 9T]FACE ) H]E1 OR O!R FOLKS ( COLOR1 ESPECIALLY 9 ! MIGRANTS RI<TS /RUGGLE1 ! SO-CALL$ MIGRANT RI<TS /RUGGLE4 ,ESPECIALLY 9 ,PH5IX1 ,I ?9K WE SEE ! PROBLEMATIC DYNAMICS EV5 WORSE ) ORGANIZATIONS LIKE ,PU5TE P]PETUAT+ ?IS 9VISIBLIZATION ( ,O'ODHAM FOLKS :OSE L&S !Y >E OCCUPY+ BUT ALSO ASS]T+ ?IS SORT ( 9DIG5EITY AS WELL1 RECOLONIZATION AS SOME PEOPLE CALL IT4 ,?IS EXAMPLE %\LD BE BUILT \T MORE3 ,L>GE BUDGET NONPR(IT MIGRANT RI<TS ORGANIZATIONS LIKE ,PU5TE >E WORK+ = COMPREH5SIVE IMMIGRATION RE=M4 ,COMPREH5SIVE IMMIGRATION RE=M MEANS 9CREAS$ MILIT>ISM & 0BORD] SECURITY0 9 ! =M ( DRONE FLI<TS1 9CREAS$ *ECKPO9TS1 >M$ TROOPS1 ! BORD] WALL1 & MORE4 ,9DIG5\S ,PEOPLES L&S SU* AS ! ,TOHONO'ODHAM >E BISECT$ BY ! SO-CALL$ ,U,S & SO-CALL$ ,MEXICAN BORD]4 ,SOME ,O'ODHAM RESI/ IMMIGRATION RE=M AS IT MEANS DE/ROY+ ,9DIG5\S COMMUNITIES4 ,MIGRANT RI<TS ORGANIZATION & !IR 0ALLIES0 9VISIBILIZE ,TOHONO'ODHAM & CONT9UE TO RALLY = IMMIGRATION RE=M P]PETUAT+ ! DE/RUCTION ( !IR COMMUNITIES4 ,P>T ( ! BASIS ( ?IS 9T]SECTIONALITY ( OPPRESSION IS TACKL+ !SE ISSUES & F9D+ WAYS TO MAKE SURE WE >E 5GAG+ PEOPLE :O CAN PROVIDE MAT]IAL SUPPORT1 CAUSE \R FOLKS USUALLY DON'T HAVE IT AT ALL444 ,) ! 9FO%OP = EXAMPLE1 FROM ! GET GO WE KNEW ?AT ! FOLKS :O HAVE ! TIME TO VOLUNTE] >E :ITE FOLKS ) 0PRIVILEG$ BACKGR\NDS0--!Y HAVE A LOT ( RES\RCES & A S5SE ( VOLUNTE]ISM AS P>T ( !IR SOCIAL UND]/&+S4 ,BUT = 9DIG5\S PEOPLE IT IS JU/ LIKE1 USUALLY ) FAMILIES ) Y\NG AGES1 & S*OOL & WORK & ALL !SE O!R ?+S1 IT IS A H>D ?+1 TO F9D A WAY TO 5GAGE ON A SU/A9$ LEVEL4 ,?AT'S P>T ( IT2 WE HAVE BE5 =C$ TO 9T]FACE ) FOLKS :O JU/ %[ UP4 ,!N WE ASS]T \R ANTI-COLONIAL POLITIC & !N !Y DON'T KN[ H[ TO NAVIGATE1 SO !N WE 5D UP GO+ ?R\< A BIT ( A PROCESS ( ORI5TATION4 ,SOMETIMES !RE'S /ATIC1 SOMETIMES !RE'S PROBLEMATIC DYNAMICS1 ESPECIALLY IF !RE'S MORE :ITE FOLKS ?AT >E GETT+ 9VOLV$4 ,SO WE HAVE HAD A LOT ( GR[+ PA9S ) TRY+ TO PROCESS ALL ?IS %IT4 ,& PEOPLE HAVE DONE IT O!R PLACES :]E IT'S LIKE EV]YBODY GREW \T ( ! ID5TITY OPPRESSION OLYMPIC GAMES & %IT1 :]E ! *ALL5GE HAS BE5 TO F9D A WAY TO HAVE EA* O!R'S BACKS4 

,A6 - ,BUT Y\ SEE1 = ME1 ?AT'S SIMPLE4 ,& :AT Y\ >E TALK+ AB\T1 Y\ >E WILL+ TO USE A :OLE TON ( J>GON OR DISC\RSES1 & ,I KN[ :]E ?OSE ?+S COME FROM444 P]SONALLY ,I W\LD REF] TO IT AS 0:O ,I AM WILL+ TO NEGOTIATE )1 & ON :AT T]MS0 & ?AT'S A PRETTY DIFF]5T CONCEPTUAL SPACE ?AN K9D ( ACCEPT+ ! PREMISE4 

,K - ,YEAH1 & ,I ?9K ,I HAVE TO GIVE IT MORE ?\<T4 ,P>T ( MY 9ITIAL RESPONSE IS ?AT ,I'M NOT SURE H[ MU* NEGOTIATION--AS F> AS IT IS AFFIRM+ & ASS]T+ LIKE :O WE >E & 5SUR+ ?AT O!R FOLKS UND]/&--& ?AT'S E/ABLI%+ ! T]MS & JU/ PROCE$+1 YA KN[8 ,& C]TA9LY !RE HAS TO BE COMMUNICATION4 ,WE >E NOT JU/ GONNA IMPOSE4 ,I DON'T ?9K IT HAS EV] BE5 ! NATURE ( ! RELATION%IP1 EV5 ?\< WE HAVE BE5 IMPOS$ UPON = SO LONG444 BUT ,I MEAN IF WE >E GO+ TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AB\T 9DIG5EITY & :AT ?AT MEANS1 !RE >E C]TA9 T]MS ?AT CAN'T BE NEGOTIAT$4 ,?AT'S :Y ,I TALK$ AB\T ! NATURAL LAW BE=E1 !RE >E ?+S ?AT444 ,I GUESS IT'S SOME?+ ,I HAVE TO ?9K AB\T A LITTLE BIT MORE4 ,BUT YEAH1 ,I AGREE4 ,I DO GET SUCK$ 9 O ! ACADEMIC E/ABLI%M5T SOMETIMES4 ,I GET SUCK$ 9TO AT LEA/ ! P]IPH]Y ( ! NONPR(IT 9DU/RY EV5 ?\<T ,I TRY TO DISMANTLE IT AT EV]Y TURN & P>T ( IT IS JU/ NAVIGAT+ TO SURVIVE4 ,I AM TRY+ TO F9D A WAY TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS POSSIBLE & SOMETIMES ?AT MEANS ASS]T+ MYSELF 9 A DIFF]5T WAY4 ,:5 ,I FIR/ GOT 9VOLV$ 9 ! PEAKS ISSUE ,I HAD NO IDEA :AT ! ,NATIONAL ,5VIRONM5TAL ,POLICY ,ACT PROCESS WAS OR :AT AN 5VIRONM5TAL IMPACT /UDY WAS OR ANY?+ AB\T ,! ,=E/ ,S]VICE DECISION-MAK+ FRAMEWORK1 BUT ,I HAD TO LE>N1 TO BE ABLE TO NAVIGATE & UND]/&4 ,I ALWAYS REALLY DEEPLY RESPECT MY BRO!RS & SI/]S 9 ! ,NATIVE ,Y\? MOVEM5T :5 ?AT WAS A REALLY FI]Y MOVEM5T1 BECAUSE !Y W]E FI]CE1 NO FUCK+ QUE/ION4 ,& !Y W\LDN'T HAVE ?IS CONV]SATION ) :ITE 0ALLIES01 !RE'S NO PO9T & ,I'M NOT GONNA HAVE ?IS CONV]SATION ) MY ELD]S CAUSE !RE'S NO PO9T1 & ,I SAY ?AT NOT TO DISMISS !IR 9TELLECT1 'CAUSE !IR 9TELLECT IS BEYOND ?IS41 ,I W\LD (F] !M ! RESPECT TO HAVE A BETT] CONV]SATION ?AT'S DIRECT ON ?AT LEVEL4 ,I ?9K P>T ( IT IS A SURVIVAL ME*ANISM TO SOME DEGREE4 ,MAYBE ,I'LL GR[ \T ( IT4 

,A6 - ,I MEAN Y\'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO KEEP ?IS SPACE UNLESS Y\ >E WILL+ TO DO IT & !RE IS SOME?+ !RE ?AT IS A REALPOLITIC1 ?AT IS SOME?+ ?AT ,I DON'T ACCEPT BUT ,I GET IT444 .<LAU<S.> ,USUALLY :5 ,I HE> PEOPLE SAY !SE ?+S ,I DON'T LIKE !M V]Y MU*4 

,K - ,NO1 NO IT'S 9T]E/+4 ,IT'S P>T ( A DISCUSSION ,I HAVE HAD ) O!R ,NATIVE FOLKS1 'CAUSE ONE1 EV]YONE ON ! \TSIDE PRESUMES ?AT ,NATIVE PEOPLE HAVE ALL ! SAME POLITICS1 :I* IS ! FIR/ FUCK$ UP ASSUMPTION4 ,TWO1 WE DO ! SAME ?+2 WE PRESUME WE >E ALL ON ! SAME PAGE TOO & ,I HAD ?IS444 ,I MEAN ,I'VE HAD TONS ( HORRIBLE EXP]I5CES ?AT HAVE L$ PEOPLE TO EI!R DECIDE NOT TO WORK ) ME OR :ATEV]1 JU/ BECAUSE ,I CAN BE REALLY CRITICAL SOMETIMES4 ,& PEOPLE >E LIKE 0LET'S />T A CAMPAIGN TO GET \T ! VOTE0 & ,I'M JU/ LIKE 0Y\'RE PRESUM+ WE >E ALL ON ! SAME PAGE POLITICALLY & Y\ JU/ TOLD ME WE DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AB\T POLITICS BE=E WE TALK$ AB\T TACTICS ?AT WE WANT$ TO USE 9 A CAMPAIGN40 ,!RE IS DEF9ITELY SOME DEEP ?+S ?AT WE NE$ TO TACKLE4 ,YEAH1 SOMETIMES ,I F9D MYSELF DISLOCAT+ MYSELF FROM :AT ,I FEEL %\LD BE AU!NTICITY1 :O ,I AM & ! EXPRESSION ( :O ,I WANT TO BE & HONE/LY ,I ?9K ?AT'S P>T ( ! EXPRESSION444 ,\T ( FRU/RATION IS ! DIFF]5TIATION BETWE5 DE-COLONIZATION & ANTI-COLONIAL444 ,I DON'T ?9K PEOPLE >E GONNA GET IT O!RWISE4 ,UNLESS !RE IS A /RONG 5\< DIFF]5TIATION :]E PEOPLE UND]/& H[ TO 5GAGE & H[ TO NOT4 ,I'VE TOLD PEOPLE ?R\< MUSIC1 ?R\< WORK OV] ! YE>S1 IF !Y ASK1 ?+S !Y CAN DO TO 5GAGE OR NOT4 ,I AM JU/ TIR$ ( DO+ ?AT1 ,I ,A,M TIR$ ( SITT+ 9 ?OSE CIRCLES & TRY+ TO HOLD H&S4 ,& BASICALLY JU/ GETT+ FRU/RAT$ ) PEOPLE :O NE$ ?AT TIME TO FIGURE ?+S \T4 ,SOMETIMES IT'S EASY TO SUBSCRIBE TO ?AT1 :AT IS IT8 ,IT'S NOT A TREADMILL1 IT'S A HAM/] :EEL OR444 7,SORRY HAM/]S7 ( DISC\RSE & ! J>GON ?AT GOES ALONG ) IT4 

,A6 - ,YEAH4 ,OK LET'S TALK AB\T SOME AN>*I/ /UFF4 ,WEASEL WORDS1 CONS5SUS1 ACC\NTABILITY4 

,K - ,YEAH 'CAUSE ,I DO WANT TO ASK Y\ MORE ?+S44 ,E>LY ON ,I HAD SOME ISSUES ) COLLECTIVE PROCESS2 ! QUICK RESPONSE IS JU/ NOT+ H[ PEOPLE FETI%IZE ?+S EASILY4 ,IT'S JU/ LIKE ! T]M 0COMMUNITY40 ,:AT DOES ?AT MEAN8 

,A6 - ,RI<T4 ,IT'S A WEASEL WORD4 

,K - ,I MEAN WE C\LD HAVE A LONG DISCUSSION AB\T IT4 ,YEAH1 PEOPLE FOCUS MORE ON ! PROCESS ?AN ! \TCOME SOMETIMES & ?AT'S ! ISSUE4 ,JU/ LIKE Y\ CAN SIT = FUCK+ H\RS 9 A MEET+ OR Y\ CAN TRY TO FOCUS ON GETT+ %IT DONE & DO+ ! WORK1 & SOMETIMES ?AT IS ! PROCESS4 ,!RE'S ?AT Z9E ,FETI%IZ+ ,PROCESS1 :I* ,I ?9K DOES A GREAT JOB ( %>+ SOME ANECDOTES AB\T H[ BADLY & H[ EASILY CONS5SUS PROCESS CAN BE MANIPULAT$4 ,WE'VE HAD SOME GREAT DISCUSSIONS444 ,IT'S ! SAME ?+ ) ! WORD 0ACC\NTABILITY40 ,IT'S /ILL SOME:AT PREVAL5T TO FETI%IZE ACC\NTABILITY PROCESSES 9 COMMUNITIES & SOMETIMES IT IS JU/ AS EASILY MANIPULAT$ AS CONS5SUS4 ,TO ! PO9T :]E WE HAVE SE5 PEOPLE ATTACK$ ?R\< ACC\NTABILITY PROCESSES4 ,SO H]E WE HAVE ADOPT$ A PAIR+ ( ACC\NTABILITY & RESPONSIBILITY4 ,!RE HAS ALWAYS GOTTA BE AN ELEM5T ( ?AT ?R\< :ATEV] PROCESS4 ,I ?9K IT'S GREAT JU/ ANYTIME TO ?R[ \T WORDS SOMETIMES1 BUT !RE IS ALSO A DANG] 9 JU/ DECON/RUCT+ EV]Y?+4 ,:]E DO WE /OP8 ,= ME ,I HAVE ?IS PO9T ( REF]5CE1 OR PO9TS ( REF]5CE :I* >E ALWAYS CULTURALLY BAS$1 :I* IS SORT ( GR\ND+ = LACK ( A BETT] T]M4 ,RI<T N[1 Y\ KN[ LIKE KEH BE+ \R FAMILIAL CLAN-BAS$ RELATION%IPS1 :I* TO ME ,I SEE1 ,I USE ?AT 9T]PRETATION ( COLLECTIVE 9T]*ANGEABLY1 TO V>Y+ DEGREES4 ,ONE ( ! LESSONS ,I LE>N$ E>LY ON ) ! BIG M\NTA9 RESI/ANCE WAS ?AT EV]YBODY WAS JU/ FRU/RAT$ AFT] ! LATE #hS & E>LY #iS4 ,! FRAGM5TATION ( SOME ( ! FAMILIES 9 ! RESI/ANCE WAS JU/ LIKE1 0,:OA1 IF WE JU/ HAD UNITY WE W\LD BE EFFECTIVE & SUCCESSFUL & HAVE VICTORY40 ,& ,I HAD SOME ( MY ELD]S1 SOME ( MY RELATIVES1 SAY1 0,WELL IF WE W]E UNIFI$ IT MI<T BE EASI] = !M TO BREAK US & SOMETIMES WE JU/ NE$ TO BE 9 \R [N CAMPS1 DO+ \R ?+S40 

,A6 - ,=C+ !M TO NEGOTIATE SEP>ATE DEALS4 

,K- ,YEAH1 & SO ,I ALWAYS TOOK ?AT ) ME & US$ IT AS A FRAME ( REF]5CE :5 ,I ?\<T AB\T ANY JO9T OR COLLABORATIVE OR COLLECTIVE EF=T4 ,JU/ ?9K+ AB\T :AT >E ! T]MS ( UNITY & :AT >E ! T]MS = WORK+ TOGE!R1 'CAUSE SOMETIMES PEOPLE FOCUS TOO MU* ON ! PROCESS & WE =GET AB\T ! \TCOMES ?AT CAN BE A*IEV$ 9 DIFF]5T WAYS4 ,I REALLY LIKE HAV+ DISCUSSIONS LIKE ?AT444 ,WE JU/ LIKE ! S5SE ( EXP]IM5TATION & WE LIKE TO TAKE RISKS H]E SOMETIMES1 SEE :AT WE CAN DO BAS$ UPON %ITTY EXP]I5CES WE HAVE HAD EV]Y:]E ELSE4 ,JU/ HAV+ DISCUSSIONS ) O!R PEOPLE1 LOOK+ AT SOME ( ! ME?ODS ?AT !Y HAVE US$ & JU/ BE+ LIKE1 0YEAH1 FUCK ?AT1 LET'S TRY SOME?+ ELSE BECAUSE IT'S NOT WORK+40 ,= YE>S1 EV]Y TIME ,I W\LD GET 9VOLV$ 9 ANY TYPE ( COLLECTIVE1 ONE ( ! FIR/ ?+S WE TALK$ AB\T WAS MODIFY+ CONS5SUS IF IT'S NECESS>Y4 ,!RE'S SOME?+ TO BE SAID AB\T OV]-FOCUS+ ON ! PROCESS & =GETT+ AB\T :AT ! ACTUAL DESIR$ \TCOMES >E4 ,SO ,I AGREE ) Y\ ON ?AT4 ,OBVI\SLY WE'VE COME TO SOME CONCLUSIONS FROM DIFF]5T P]SPECTIVES4 ,I W\LD LIKE TO HE> MORE FROM Y\ AB\T ?AT ?\<4 ,I'M SURE Y\ HAVE DIFF]5T EXP]I5CES4 

,A6 - ,WELL ,I ?9K ,I /OPP$444 ,I MEAN1 ,I WAS PRETTY 9TO ! PROCESS >\ND CONS5SUS = A GREAT NUMB] ( YE>S4 ,I FEEL LIKE EV]Y GR\P ,I CAME 9TO ?AT HAD PEOPLE LESS-EXP]I5C$ 9 !SE TOPICS1 ,I REALLY WALK$ PEOPLE D[N ! C\NTRY ROAD4 ,OH & P>TIALLY ?AT'S BECAUSE ,I WAS 9 ! ,*E ,CAFE 79 ,SAN ,DIEGO71 = A C\PLE YE>S & P>T ( ! PROCESS ( BECOM+ A CORE MEMB] WAS BE+ $UCAT$444 ,! ,*E ,CAFE IS ACTUALLY AT ! ,U,C ,SAN ,DIEGO1 & !RE W]E F\R O!R WORK] COOP]ATIVES AT ,U,C ,SAN ,DIEGO4 ,ONE ( !M WAS A BOOK/ORE1 !Y W]E ! SM>T ONES1 & !Y ACTUALLY1 Y\ HAD TO GO ?R\< A CLASS :]E !Y TAU<T Y\ H[ TO ?9K AB\T CONS5SUS & !RE'S A BOOK CALL$ ! 0,R$ ,DOC01 IT WAS A V]Y ?ICK B9D] & Y\ HAD TO GO ?R\< ! :OLE ?+4 ,I LE>N$ AFT]W>DS ?AT ?OSE PEOPLE W]E ,MAOI/S1 BUT !Y W]E DEF9ITELY TEA*+ ! ,AN>*I/S H[ TO DO CONS5SUS4 ,SO ?AT WAS ACTUALLY :Y1 ,I MEAN ,I GOT ! H>D LESSON1 .<,KLEE LAU<S.> ,I GOT ! FULL N9E Y>DS2 !Y HAD V]Y CLE> FL[ *>TS & ! :OLE ?+4 ,!Y HAD CREAT$ IT \T ( A PROCESS ( DECADES ( BIG FI<T+4 ,!Y DID ONE ?+ ?AT WE ACTUALLY REPLICAT$ ?R\< MY 5TIRE TIME 9 COLLECTIVES1 :I* WAS CRIT1 SELF-CRIT4 ,DO Y\ KN[ AB\T ?IS1 FROM ! #gS8 ,IT ACTUALLY COMES FROM ,*9A4 ,I MEAN CRIT1 SELF-CRIT IS BASICALLY1 WE >E 9 A COLLECTIVE TOGE!R & Y\ DO SOME?+ ?AT IS POLITICALLY 9APPROPRIATE1 CRIT1 SELF-CRIT IS ! PROCESS ( Y\ BE+ ?RA%$ OV] IT1 9 PUBLIC1 )9 ! GR\P1 )9 ! C5TRAL COMMITTEE4 ,TO ! PO9T TO Y\ HAV+ TO CONFESS Y\R MI/AKE4 ,?IS WAS SE5 AS A WAY TO EV5 \T P[] RELATION%IPS4 ,SO 9 ! CONTEXT ( ! ,*E ,CAFE1 EV]Y ?REE MON?S ! FIFTE5 ( US W\LD SIT TOGE!R & BLOCK \T ! :OLE DAY--) NO ONE COM+ 9 OR GO+ \T--TO CRITICIZE EA* O!R4 ,IT WAS1 ,I MEAN ESPECIALLY = ME1 ?IS REALLY WAS MY1 LIKE1 BECOM+ AN ADULT SORT ( ?+4 ,PRIOR TO ?AT HAPP5+1 ,I ?REW TEMP] TANTRUMS4 ,A P>T ( MY P]SONALITY & MY RAGE ISSUES & ALL ! RE/4 ,I ?REW TEMP] TANTRUMS4 ,& BOY AFT] LIKE TWO CRIT1 SELF-CRITS ,I WAS CUR$4 ,BUT ( C\RSE1 AS Y\ CAN IMAG9E1 !RE W]E MAYBE ONE OR TWO O!R PEOPLE :O CAME FROM LIKE A POOR BACKGR\ND4 ,EV]YONE ELSE444 !SE W]E ! *ILDR5 ( RI* PEOPLE4 ,I WASN'T A /UD5T1 !Y W]E ALL ,U,C ,SAN ,DIEGO /UD5TS4 ,IT WAS A CRAZY ?+ = ME TO DO1 BUT ?AT WAS444 ,:ATEV]1 ?AT WAS P>T ( MY PROCESS2 IT WAS P>T ( H[ ,I CAME TO UND]/& ?IS /UFF4 ,& FIVE YE>S LAT] ,I NEV] WORK$ ) ANO!R GR\P ?AT DID ?AT BECAUSE1 ACTUALLY ?AT'S NOT FAIR4 ,I HAVE BECOME 9CREAS+LY CRITICAL ( ?IS OV] TIME4 ,& ESPECIALLY :AT ,I FEEL IS ! SLOPPY USE ( LANGUAGE4 ,EV]Y AN>*I/ GR\P IS NOT A COLLECTIVE4 ,ANYTIME AN AN>*I/ DECIDES TO DO SOME?+ ) ANO!R AN>*I/ IS NOT AN EXAMPLE ( CONS5SUS4 ,BUT ?AT'S1 IT'S K9D ( LIKE A PET PEEVE1 LIKE :5 PEOPLE SAY 0V]Y UNIQUE01 ANO!R PET PEEVE1 BUT UM444 ,SO ,I GUESS :AT IT COMES TO IS ?IS PO9T :]E !RE HAS BECOME AN OBSESSION ) PROCESS BECAUSE AN>*I/S DON'T HAVE P>TICUL>LY GOOD ANSW]S TO ! QUE/IONS 0:AT DOES ?AT MEAN80 ,AM]ICANS1 BY & L>GE1 >E ,PROTE/ANTS & ! ,PROTE/ANTS1 !Y C>E AB\T WORK A LOT4 ,IT IS P>T ( !IR RELIGION ?AT !Y'RE GONNA WORK4 ,AS A MATT] ( FACT ,I GREW UP 9 ,WE/]N ,MI*IGAN2 ! NEI<BORHOODS 9 WE/]N ,MI*IGAN W]E ,BLACK PEOPLE1 ,POLES 7AS ! POORE/ ( ! :ITE PEOPLE !Y GOT !IR [N <ETTO71 ,9DIANS1 ! ,DUT*4 ,& ! ,DUT* BR\<T !IR TYPE ( ,LU!RANISM TO WE/]N ,MI*IGAN1 & !Y BELIEVE 9 PRE-DE/9ATION1 SO !Y WORK H>D BECAUSE !Y >5'T SURE :I* WAY IT IS GO+ TO GO .<HEAV5 OR HELL.> BUT IT'S ALREADY BE5 DECID$4 ,ANYWAYS1 BIG LONG /ORY4 ,! PO9T IS ?AT444 

,K - ,I'M ALWAYS 9T]E/$ 9 ! LONG P>TS ( ! %ORT /ORIES4 

,A6 - ,YEAH1 ( C\RSE4 ,?AT'S :]E ! FLAVOR IS6 ,SO ! PO9T IS ,AM]ICANS BY & L>GE ?9K V]Y FUNCTIONALLY4 ,ANYTIME Y\ %>E Y\R CRAZY IDEA1 ! FIR/ QUE/ION IS ALWAYS 0,H[ Y\ GONNA DO IT80 ,SO ! RESPONSE ?AT HAS REALLY COME ?R\< ! PEACE MOVEM5T ( ! #gS 1 BUT REALLY ( ! #hS & !--NOT CLAM%ELL ALLIANCE BUT :ATEV] IT WAS CALL$ .<! ABALONE ALLIANCE.>--?AT WAS 9 ! BAY >EA4 ,!Y >E ! PEOPLE :O BR\<T CONS5SUS 9TO ! AN>*I/ DISC\RSE4 ,IT WASN'T P>T ( IT AT ALL BE=E !N4 ,SO ?AT HAPP5$ 9 ! #hS & WE HAVE BE5 BURD5$ ) IT EV] S9CE4 ,BASICALLY ,I W\LD LIKE TO HAVE Y\ JO9 ME 9 ! RESI/ANCE TO IT 1 BUT REALLY IT IS JO9+ ! RESI/ANCE TO WEASEL WORDS1 'CAUSE :AT HAS HAPP5$ IS ?AT WE JU/ USE !SE WORDS TO DESCRIBE EV]Y?+ EV5 IF !Y >5'T NECESS>ILY P>TICUL>LY ACCURATE4 

,K - ,YEAH ABSOLUTELY4 

,A6 - ',CAUSE A GR\P ( PEOPLE SITT+ >\ND A TABLE & MORE OR LESS AGREE+ ON DO+ SOME?+ TOGE!R1 ?AT /ILL FEELS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD WAY TO DO ?+S4 

,K - ,YEAH4 ,C]TA9LY ! WILL ( ! MAJORITY OR IMPOSITIONS >E V]Y *ALL5G+1 BUT ,I ?9K ?AT IS P>T (444 AT LEA/ ! APPROA* NE$S TO BE M9DFUL (444 ,I MEAN1 9DIG5\S ORGANIZ+ ) ! ,N,G,O NONPR(IT WORLD ON AN 9T]NATIONAL LEVEL IS FOCUS$ ON FREE PRIOR 9=M$ CONS5T1 :I* ,I ?9K MAKES S5SE TO PEOPLE4 ,& IT'S APPLICABLE ,I ?9K4 ,RI<T N[ !RE'S A BIT ( A MONOPOLY ON ?AT T]M1 9 ! 9T]NATIONAL 9DIG5\S ORGANIZ+ SPH]ES1 BUT ,I ?9K !RE'S DIFF]5T WAYS WE CAN APPLY IT BEYOND SO-CALL$ HUMAN-RI<TS /RUGGLES4 ,!RE IS SOME?+ TO BE SAID AB\T FREE1 PRIOR1 & 9=M$ CONS5T4 

,A6 - ,! FREE P>T IS ! DECEPTION4 

,K - ,YEAH1 RI<T4 ,ESPECIALLY :5 DEF9$ BY 9T]NATIONAL 9/ITUTIONS4 

,A6 - 444& ! VIOL5CE ALL OV] ! PLACE !RE4 ,JU/ BECAUSE VIOL5CE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE VIOL5CE ANY MORE4 

,K - ,?AT'S ! ?+4 ,MORE REC5TLY ,I HAVE BE5 REALLY FASC9AT$ ) TALK+ AB\T LEGITIMACY TOO1 & JU/ ?9K+ AB\T :AT ?AT MEANS 9 RELATION TO444 & ,I ?9K IT CAME \T ( ONE ( ! ,ROLL+ ,?UND]S1 !RE WAS A REALLY GOOD ESSAY AB\T LEGITIMACY & ,I JU/ TOOK ! WORD \T ( CONTEXT4 ,I DON'T EV5 REMEMB] :AT !Y W]E TALK+ AB\T BUT IT WAS 9T]E/+4 ,I ?9K ?AT SOMETIMES IF Y\ HAVE !SE T]MS & !N Y\ APPLY !M Y\ >E LEGITIMATE1 )9 !SE CIRCLES4 ,& IF Y\ DON'T HAVE !M1 0,:AT >E Y\ DO+ H]E80 

,A6 - ,ACTUALLY ,I WAS GO+ TO M5TION ?IS E>LI]1 ,I WAS ALWAYS /RUCK BY ! L& BRIDGE DISCUSSION4 

,K - ,YEAH1 ! ,B]+ ,/RAIT4 

,A6 - ,SPECIFICALLY ! IDEA ( H[1 LIKE ,I HAVE *ALL5G$ PEOPLE A C\PLE DIFF]5T TIMES ON ! IDEA ?AT444 P]HAPS ,I ACCEPT ?AT !RE W]E PEOPLE :O CAME \T ( ! HE>T ( ,AFRICA1 ! ,EUPHRATES & ,TIGRIS1 ! ,EUPHRATES ,BAS98 ,I'M WILL+ TO ACCEPT ?AT 0,P,O,P60 ,PEOPLE CAME4 ,BUT Y\'RE NOT WILL+ TO ACCEPT ANY O!R PO9T ( ORIG98 ,9 O!R WORDS MO/ PEOPLE :O >E SCI5TIFICALLY-M9D$ & BELIEVE 9 EVOLUTION >E V]Y CLE> ?AT EV]YONE WALK$ FROM !RE4 ,IT BL[S MY M9D4 

,K - ,YEAH4 ,WE DID A T\R ) \R TRADITIONAL DANCE GR\P & TOOK \R MUSIC UP 9TO ?OSE >EAS 'CAUSE !RE IS AN ,A?ABASKAN DIALECT1 AS IT'S CALL$1 HAS ALWAYS FASC9AT$ AN?ROPOLOGI/S & WE W]E TALK+ TO !M1 &444 ,Y\ W\LD HAVE A MU* BETT] CONV]SATION ) MY DAD TO SOME DEGREE 'CAUSE HE DOESN'T444 ,LIKE1 HE GETS /RAI<T TO ! PO9T4 ,SO IT'S :AT WE ASK$ !M UP !RE1 MY DAD WAS TALK+ TO !M TOO & WE W]E JU/ ASK+ !M :AT !Y ?\<T AB\T ?IS & MY DAD WAS SAY+1 0,HEY WE'RE RELATIVES1 9 SOME WAY1 %APE1 OR =M WE KN[ ?AT 9 \R HI/ORY ?IS IS :AT WE SAY4 ,?AT !RE WAS A TIME ( CONFLICT H]E & SOME ( \R FOLKS MIGRAT$ UP NOR? & SOME FOLKS CAME D[N & WE HAVE WORDS OR NAMES = !M10 & ONE ( ! ?+S ?AT FOLKS UP !RE1 ,D9E SAID WAS ?AT1 IF !RE'S A BRIDGE1 TRAFFIC GOES BO? WAYS4 ,& WE W]E JU/ LAU<+ AB\T IT1 BECAUSE ( !IR 9T]PRETATION4 ,I ?9K ! IMPORTANT ?+ = ME1 ! MA9 PO9T ,I M5TION$ E>LI]1 WE HAVE \R ORIG9 /ORY1 \R TRADITIONAL HI/ORY :I* IS1 ?AT'S H[ WE KN[ \RSELVES 9 ?IS WORLD4 ,IT'S A *ALL5G+ DISCUSSION :5 Y\ HAVE PEOPLE DISLOCAT+ ?AT & TAK+ ?AT FROM US & CALL+ IT MY?S4 

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,*RONOLOGY 3 
,MAY #a1 #bad 3 ,9T]VIEW ) ,KLEE ,B5ALLY -- ,PUBLICATION4 
,APRIL #b#h1 #bb 3 ,9T]VIEW ) ,KLEE ,B5ALLY -- ,ADD$4 
,JANU>Y #d1 #bbb 3 ,9T]VIEW ) ,KLEE ,B5ALLY -- ,UPDAT$4 

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